Remove [Courses] from lesson names/post subjects

[mbox2moodle.git] / source / general

From linuxgrrlv2@yahoo.ca  Wed Mar 13 07:03:54 2002
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Whatever courses are offered are great(: One third to
one half of what is talked about on this list is
gobbeldy-gook to me, but I'm picking up info by the
bucket-load...


~Melanie

__________________________________________________
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From rolick571@mail.cr.duq.edu  Thu Mar 14 06:16:27 2002
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From: coldfire <rolick571@duq.edu>
To: courses@linuxchix.org
Subject: Re: [Courses] tcp/ip course
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well, is anyone interested in networking?  in particular, tcp/ip?  i'd
have a hay day talking about that :P


coldie

> Whatever courses are offered are great(: One third to
> one half of what is talked about on this list is
> gobbeldy-gook to me, but I'm picking up info by the
> bucket-load...


From hamster@hamsternet.org  Thu Mar 14 08:27:18 2002
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From: Hamster <hamster@hamsternet.org>
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Subject: Re: [Courses] tcp/ip course
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> well, is anyone interested in networking?  in particular, tcp/ip?  i'd
> have a hay day talking about that :P

yes yes. pick me! pick me!

:)

Hamster


From linuxgrrlv2@yahoo.ca  Fri Mar 15 11:46:27 2002
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>well, is anyone interested in networking?  in
>particular, tcp/ip?  i'd
>have a hay day talking about that :P

Don't start one on my account, as my level of
knowledge is still at the "how do I backup my info,
and why can I send email across my network but not
access webpages" stage... but it looks like Hamster is
interested, and I'd love to tag along and ask
questions(:

~Melanie


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From sujita@mimos.my  Thu Jul 18 11:11:50 2002
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Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:12:39 +0800
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Hi,
    Anybody interested in teaching how to write device drivers?
I'm interested in learning.
Rgds,
Sujita


From mary@puzzling.org  Thu Jul 18 11:17:46 2002
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On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 09:12:39AM +0800, Sujita Purushothaman wrote:
>     Anybody interested in teaching how to write device drivers?  I'm
>     interested in learning.

Sujita,

Val Henson was teaching kernel programming, including drivers, on the
grrls-only mailing list.

You can join at http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/grrls-only

She is also on the IRC channel (#linuxchix on irc.linuxchix.org) and
will teach there.

Otherwise you could try http://www.kernelnewbies.org/

-Mary.

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Mary wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 09:12:39AM +0800, Sujita Purushothaman wrote:
> >     Anybody interested in teaching how to write device drivers?  I'm
> >     interested in learning.
>
> Sujita,
>
> Val Henson was teaching kernel programming, including drivers, on the
> grrls-only mailing list.
>
> You can join at http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/grrls-only
>
> She is also on the IRC channel (#linuxchix on irc.linuxchix.org) and
> will teach there.
>
> Otherwise you could try http://www.kernelnewbies.org/

Thanks, Mary. I'll get on the IRC.
Would I be able to follow if I jump in now?

>
>
> -Mary.
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Mary wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 09:12:39AM +0800, Sujita
Purushothaman wrote:
<br>>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Anybody interested in teaching how to write
device drivers?&nbsp; I'm
<br>>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; interested in learning.
<p>Sujita,
<p>Val Henson was teaching kernel programming, including drivers, on the
<br>grrls-only mailing list.
<p>You can join at <a href="http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/grrls-only">http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/grrls-only</a>
<p>She is also on the IRC channel (#linuxchix on irc.linuxchix.org) and
<br>will teach there.
<p>Otherwise you could try <a href="http://www.kernelnewbies.org/">http://www.kernelnewbies.org/</a></blockquote>
Thanks, Mary. I'll get on the IRC.
<br>Would I be able to follow if I jump in now?
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><a href="http://www.kernelnewbies.org/"></a>&nbsp;
<p>-Mary.
<br>_______________________________________________
<br>Courses mailing list
<br>Courses@linuxchix.org
<br><a href="http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses">http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses</a></blockquote>
</html>

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From jenn@anthill.echidna.id.au  Thu Jul 18 12:13:15 2002
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Subject: Re: [Courses] Device Drivers
From: Jenn Vesperman <jenn@anthill.echidna.id.au>
To: Sujita Purushothaman <sujita@mimos.my>
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On Thu, 2002-07-18 at 11:36, Sujita Purushothaman wrote:
> Mary wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 09:12:39AM +0800, Sujita Purushothaman wrote:
> > >     Anybody interested in teaching how to write device drivers?  I'm
> > >     interested in learning.
> >
> > Sujita,
> >
> > Val Henson was teaching kernel programming, including drivers, on the
> > grrls-only mailing list.
> >
> > You can join at http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/grrls-only
> >
> > She is also on the IRC channel (#linuxchix on irc.linuxchix.org) and
> > will teach there.
> >
> > Otherwise you could try http://www.kernelnewbies.org/
> 
> Thanks, Mary. I'll get on the IRC.
> Would I be able to follow if I jump in now?

Many of the older lessons are available on the website, under the
'courses' link.

And there will be help available if you have to ask questions - everyone
*here* understands that 'ignorant != unintelligent'. :) Everyone has to
start from no-knowledge.




Jenn V.
-- 
    "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture 
                you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.

jenn@anthill.echidna.id.au     http://anthill.echidna.id.au/~jenn/



From sujita@mimos.my  Thu Jul 18 12:18:45 2002
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Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:19:35 +0800
From: Sujita Purushothaman <sujita@mimos.my>
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Subject: Re: [Courses] Device Drivers
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Jenn Vesperman wrote:

> On Thu, 2002-07-18 at 11:36, Sujita Purushothaman wrote:
> > Mary wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 09:12:39AM +0800, Sujita Purushothaman wrote:
> > > >     Anybody interested in teaching how to write device drivers?  I'm
> > > >     interested in learning.
> > >
> > > Sujita,
> > >
> > > Val Henson was teaching kernel programming, including drivers, on the
> > > grrls-only mailing list.
> > >
> > > You can join at http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/grrls-only
> > >
> > > She is also on the IRC channel (#linuxchix on irc.linuxchix.org) and
> > > will teach there.
> > >
> > > Otherwise you could try http://www.kernelnewbies.org/
> >
> > Thanks, Mary. I'll get on the IRC.
> > Would I be able to follow if I jump in now?
>
> Many of the older lessons are available on the website, under the
> 'courses' link.

I just found this :-)

>
>
> And there will be help available if you have to ask questions - everyone
> *here* understands that 'ignorant != unintelligent'. :) Everyone has to
> start from no-knowledge.

Now I really see the difference in this mailing list. Thanks!

>
>
> Jenn V.
> --
>     "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
>                 you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
>
> jenn@anthill.echidna.id.au     http://anthill.echidna.id.au/~jenn/

Rgds,
Sujita


From jenn@anthill.echidna.id.au  Wed Oct  9 11:35:33 2002
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(LinuxChix Coordinator hat on)

Just in case any of the men on the list want to do the kernel
development course, be aware that it's available in website form at
http://www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/kernel_hacking/

Please do NOT ask any of the women to 'subscribe and forward the
emails'. (This just happened to me.) The relevant emails are already
forwarded - to the web page, where you can all use them. If there are no
recent updates to the web page, then there are no recent posts. (Which
happens to be the case, Val got busy.)

Val specifically chose to do the course the way she did, and as the
teacher, she has every right to do it her way. Disregarding her choice
is disrespect for the teacher. She's doing this for free, respect her.

Thank you.


Jenn V.
(taking hat off now.)
-- 
    "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture 
                you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.

jenn@anthill.echidna.id.au     http://anthill.echidna.id.au/~jenn/



From rmanning@adam.com.au  Sat Jun 14 21:01:01 2003
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Subject: [Courses]Using info
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Hi all

I'm going to be helping teach some Unemployed people in a Work for the
Dole program. They'll be helping Computerbank SA recycle computers and
on the OK ones install Linux, configure it, and teach the recipient how
to use it. Recipients can be needy schools, community groups and 
families.

I'd like to know if I can use Lessons given in the Networking course for
these participants.

Thanks

Robyn

http://sa.computerbank.org.au

ps We are sending computers and a trainer to East Timor to help get the
Social Services dept setup with IT. Contact me for further info.

-- 
You are slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through peanut butter.

From ivanovi3@hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 23:53:38 2003
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Subject: [Courses] Open Source Definition
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Hello all... My name is Ivanovi.

Recently one of my friend asked me what is open source?

My question given was : Any code which is distributed freely, for example, I 
wrote a program, and I put it on the net so that it is accessible by 
everyone, it is called open source.

However, she argued, she said : Open source is a commity, they distribute 
the software which is freely distributed.

May I know any comment about the answers??

Best,

Ivanovi

_________________________________________________________________
Download the latest MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.com.my

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Hi

There's a website called www.opensource.org any they have lots of
interesting information.

Robyn

On Thu, 2003-07-03 at 23:23, Ivanovi Ivanovi wrote:
> Hello all... My name is Ivanovi.
> 
> Recently one of my friend asked me what is open source?
> 
> My question given was : Any code which is distributed freely, for example, I 
> wrote a program, and I put it on the net so that it is accessible by 
> everyone, it is called open source.
> 
> However, she argued, she said : Open source is a commity, they distribute 
> the software which is freely distributed.
> 
> May I know any comment about the answers??
> 
> Best,
> 
> Ivanovi
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Download the latest MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.com.my
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
-- 
You are slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through peanut butter.

From vatsan@grove.ufl.edu  Fri Jul  4 01:29:55 2003
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> May I know any comment about the answers??

Check out http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition_plain.php

--
~vatsan

The deer does not know the secret;
the musk is within its own body,
but it searches for it outside. 
--Bhagat Ravidas (15th Century).


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Thank you for the answers and link, so that means my friend gave me a
correct answer...
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Hi all

IBM Developerworks have free Linux tutorials including LPI stuff.

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/views/linux/tutorials.jsp

LPI exams will be offered at LinuxConf Aus 2004 in Adelaide.

http://lca2004.linux.org.au

Robyn

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Hi all,

I'm new to the subscription list.

First, thanks for the opportunity to learn how to use Linux, especially 
for newbies like me, and thanks for LinuxChicks for a great friendly site!

Second, how do I actually begin with an online/email course? I'm 
interested in beginning from the beginning, which I think is the Unix 
basics.

Cheers,
Paul

From suzo@spin.net.au  Fri Nov 21 21:01:41 2003
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G'day Paul,

Did anyone answer this question?  Sorry if not.

You can subscrive to the courses list from the LinuxChix web page. I am 
assuming that you have done this from this subject title.  You can choose 
which course thread you want from the list options page, as mentioned on the 
web page.  That is you can recieve mail from one course and not another if 
you like.

Basically all courses run differently, it is up to the person who is giving 
the course to decide how they do things.  Generally though you join a course 
by signing up for the list.  I suggest you then send a message to the list, 
or the co-ordingator of that course and tell them that you want to join in, 
and they will tell you about their system

Have fun.

sue


On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:54 am, Paul Jahshan wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm new to the subscription list.
>
> First, thanks for the opportunity to learn how to use Linux, especially
> for newbies like me, and thanks for LinuxChicks for a great friendly site!
>
> Second, how do I actually begin with an online/email course? I'm
> interested in beginning from the beginning, which I think is the Unix
> basics.
>
> Cheers,
> Paul
>
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses

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Since I've had no response whatsoever to my Nov. 13 email inquiring 
about courses, whether from the site maintainers, from the course 
instructors, or from the other list users, I'm unsubscribing.

Mea culpa!

Paul Jahshan

From listpig@earthlink.net  Wed Feb 18 19:26:26 2004
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Subject: [Courses] Course idea/request
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At some point, I'd like to see some courses on specific software packages
for the idiot linux user.  What I have in mind is some really basic
step-by-step stuff to get a beginner to where, say, the O'Reilly books
and/or man pages are useful.  (At least for me, if I'm really starting from
zero, those can be interesting, but not inherently useful until I get to a
step or two into understanding the program.)

Specifically what I have in mind is something like "mysql for people who
have only ever worked with idiot-gui db programs on Windows"---it seems like
most of the books I've seen are aimed a bit more at "OK, database expert,
this is how this particular db application works".

Clearly mysql (from install to configure to use) is a bit more complex than
"open MSWorks, click database", but I'm bloody determined to grok mysql
without having to yell for the guru on the other end of the room ("Okay,
just let me have your box for a minute and I'll have it up and running.").
Where I'm at right now (on an OS X Mac) is "downloaded and installed,
apparently, but I have no idea what to do next."

I'm sure there are other unix packages that have a fairly sharp learning
curve for which one is not prepared at all coming from either a Win or Mac
background, but mysql is the one that just jumps out at me off the top of my
head, and my personal bugaboo at the moment.

Is it just me, or would others find that useful?

--pig, who has only ever used mysql via other folks' idiot-usable webpage
interfaces

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Subject: Re: [Courses] Course idea/request (a second one)
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how to use regulare expressions, I can draw the finite state automa up on
paper, but never manage to translate them to regulare expressions that are
being used on cli apps

Finne

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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:54:26 +0100
From: Marleen Garcia <d.lineate@skynet.be>
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Subject: Re: [Courses] Course idea/request (a third one)
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On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 10:08:51AM +0100, Finne Boonen <fboonen@vub.ac.be> wrote:

> how to use regulare expressions, I can draw the finite state automa up on
> paper, but never manage to translate them to regulare expressions that are
> being used on cli apps


Fabulous ideas for courses, I think - mysql & regex ...

Maybe a third suggestion (I'm not experienced enough to do this):

mail  (= mailhandling & filtering

            procmail,
            creating a complicated, decent (working), procmailrc,
            -! procmailsc (scoring of mail),
                  ('man procmailsc' - 2 examples of scoring given,
                  but I think I felt my brain bounce around in my
                  head, saying, 'No, not this, get me out of here
                  now! The pain. The torture. Cannot make sense of
                  this! Well, maybe it's just me :-)

            spamassassin (+ sa-learn)

            fetchmail & sendmail and/or postfix or any other MTA
            that exists and can be discussed

            mutt, kmail & other mailers that exist for Linux -
            esp. what features are special to that mailer that
            other mailers do not have, if that's the case

      )

+ For every part:

            .     mention (perhaps per distribution), the location
                  of the package information, whether or not it
                  comes with examples or not (for procmail there
                  are a few examples, but they don't tell you how
                  to get *everything* out of procmail - do we
                  really have to buy a book for that -> oh oh).

            .     + the location of the config file & what you can
                  or can't adapt.

            .     all the man pages to read


Sort of brings all existing info into one document, when it states
the names of all the man pages to read as well as the config files'
location, and even the location of the binary (does it vary per
distribution).

For ex. in kmail, if you set your mail transport not to your
provider's smtp, but to local sendmail you need to know the
location of the binary - or how to look for it. In SuSE, it's in
('find / -name sendmail' -> /usr/sbin/) - perhaps it would even be
*cool* to let people search for all files related to procmail,
sendmail (esp. at the point of discussing kmail and setting up the
mail transport.) I can imagine newbies who want to fast setup mail,
going through a couple of directories in frustration. A lot of
files are named sendmail, ok which one then is the binary? There
needs to be some info on binaries being in (s)bin dirs.

            /etc/init.d/sendmail
            /etc/permissions.d/sendmail
            /etc/sysconfig/sendmail
            /var/run/sendmail
            /usr/share/doc/packages/sendmail
            /usr/share/sendmail
            /usr/lib/sendmail
            /usr/sbin/sendmail

Mutt delivers mail to sendmail with options (-o -i, I think though
I am not sure).

It would be nice if courses all start off keeping the clueless and
lazy newbie in mind, though not treating them as idiots. They know
nothing about how to set up mail, or how to set the binary to  ...
or how to find files even.

Marleen

From rasjidw@openminddev.net  Fri Feb 20 18:25:00 2004
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From: Rasjid Wilcox <rasjidw@openminddev.net>
To: courses@linuxchix.org
Subject: Re: [Courses] Course idea/request (a third one)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 18:27:45 +1100
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On Friday 20 February 2004 09:54, Marleen Garcia wrote:
> mail  (= mailhandling & filtering
>
>             procmail,
>             creating a complicated, decent (working), procmailrc,
>             -! procmailsc (scoring of mail),
>                   ('man procmailsc' - 2 examples of scoring given,
>                   but I think I felt my brain bounce around in my
>                   head, saying, 'No, not this, get me out of here
>                   now! The pain. The torture. Cannot make sense of
>                   this! Well, maybe it's just me :-)

As an alternative to procmail there is courier-maildrop. My maildrop filter 
for this list reads:

# LinuxChix-Courses
if ( /^List-Post:.*courses@linuxchix\.org/:h )
{
    to $DEFAULT/.Lists.LinuxChix-Courses/
}

which at least doesn't make my eyes hurt in the way that all the procmail 
configs I have seen do.

Then again, many people swear by procmail, so I guess it is a matter of 
personal preference.

Cheers,

Rasjid.

-- 
Rasjid Wilcox
Canberra, Australia (UTC +11 hrs)
http://www.openminddev.net
From fboonen@vub.ac.be  Fri Feb 20 19:32:56 2004
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Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:32:48 +0100 (MET)
From: Finne Boonen <fboonen@vub.ac.be>
To: Marleen Garcia <d.lineate@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: [Courses] Course idea/request (a third one)
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On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Marleen Garcia wrote:
> 
> For ex. in kmail, if you set your mail transport not to your
> provider's smtp, but to local sendmail you need to know the
> location of the binary - or how to look for it. In SuSE, it's in
> ('find / -name sendmail' -> /usr/sbin/) - perhaps it would even be

try 

wich sendmail

for a change :)

Finne
***********************************************************************************************
normally reserved for signatures
currently lacking one

From cristofd@hevanet.com  Fri Feb 20 20:42:39 2004
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Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:42:31 -0800
To: courses@linuxchix.org, Finne Boonen <fboonen@vub.ac.be>
From: "Daniel." <cristofd@hevanet.com>
Subject: Re: [Courses] Course idea/request (a second one)
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>how to use regulare expressions, I can draw the finite state automa up on
>paper, but never manage to translate them to regulare expressions that are
>being used on cli apps

How to change a finite-state automaton into a regular expression? 
Here's a technique, though it's a bit slow to do by hand and there's 
probably a program to do it...
We're going to modify the graph gradually, and the edges are allowed 
to be labeled with regular expressions, not just single symbols. 
Special notations for the purpose of this email are:
-zero or more copies of string A, concatenated together: A*
-string A followed by string B: A.B
-string A OR string B: A|B
And that's the order of precedence too. Now, the technique.

-add a new start node to the graph, and make an edge from it to the 
old start node, labeled with the empty string
-add a new final node to the graph, and make edges to it from all the 
old final nodes, labeled with the empty string
-everywhere in the graph where there are two edges from node X to 
node Y, one labeled with string A and one with string B, replace them 
with a single edge from X to Y, labeled A|B
-from now on, the notation <XY> will denote the regular expression 
that labels the edge from node X to node Y

-now we eliminate nodes one at a time. Pick a node at random--call it 
X. Now for every pair of nodes other than X--call them Y and Z--we 
make the regular expression <YZ>|<YX>.<XX>*.<XZ> and that expression 
becomes the new <YZ>, replacing the old one. Basically, all the paths 
through node X are being replaced by direct paths that do not go 
through X. After we do this, we can remove X from the graph entirely.

Note that we must do this for every pair of nodes other than X in 
BOTH directions, I.e. we not only replace <MN> with 
<MN>|<MX>.<XX>*.<XN> but we also replace <NM> with 
<NM>|<NX>.<XX>*.<XM> AND for that matter we do it for each node other 
than X and ITSELF, i.e. we replace <MM> with <MM>|<MX>.<XX>*.<XM>

Okay. So after we made all these new direct paths to replace the old 
paths through X, we remove X from the graph. Then we pick a new node, 
do the same thing with all the paths that go through it, and remove 
it. We go on doing this until the only two nodes left are the new 
start node and the new final node that we made for the purposes of 
this procedure. The edge from the new start node to the new final 
node, at that point, will be labeled with a regular expression that 
is exactly the one recognized by the finite-state automaton we just 
destroyed.

Two more little notes. One, in making the new regular expressions, 
the components should be parenthesized where necessary, i.e. we 
really want to replace <YZ> with <YZ>|(<YX>).(<XX>)*.(<XZ>), though 
some of those parentheses may be superfluous. Two, the final regular 
expression may be tidier if we clean up the regular expressions a bit 
along the way, using some of the regular-expression equivalence rules.

If this is is unclear, or isn't vaguely what you were interested in, sorry.
-Daniel.
-- 
If at first you don't succeed, cut your losses.
From ekco9595@rogers.com  Wed Jun  2 07:29:42 2004
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hmm, i signed up for the linuxchix mailing list like 6months ago or something 
and not one message have i recived lol, im wondering am i not properly signed 
up here or is this mailing list just not being used at all anymore? ;0

From suzo@spin.net.au  Wed Jun  2 09:12:41 2004
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From: Sue Stones <suzo@spin.net.au>
Organization: Vyette's House
To: ekco9595@rogers.com, courses@linuxchix.org
Subject: Re: [Courses] hmmm
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 09:12:04 +1000
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The courses list has been very quiet lately.  Because the courses are all run 
by volunteers this happens when the course instructor is unable to maintain 
thier planned schedule, or when they feel there is not enough interest in the 
course, or some other reason.

But there has been some messages in the last 6 months.  I have had a look at 
the list of people subscribed to courses and your name is there.   It may be 
that you have only signed up for some courses, and they are ones that are 
no-longer running.  If you leave all boxes un-checked you will get mail from 
any course.

sue


On Wednesday 02 Jun 2004 3:26 am, ekco9595@rogers.com wrote:
> hmm, i signed up for the linuxchix mailing list like 6months ago or
> something and not one message have i recived lol, im wondering am i not
> properly signed up here or is this mailing list just not being used at all
> anymore? ;0
>
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses

From mary@home.puzzling.org  Wed Jun  2 09:29:21 2004
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From: Mary <mary-linuxchix@puzzling.org>
To: ekco9595@rogers.com
Subject: Re: [Courses] hmmm
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On Tue, Jun 01, 2004, ekco9595@rogers.com wrote:
> hmm, i signed up for the linuxchix mailing list like 6months ago or
> something and not one message have i recived lol, im wondering am i
> not properly signed up here or is this mailing list just not being
> used at all anymore? ;0

It is very quiet at the moment since noone is running a course (what
happened to the FW course?)

Check the archives at http://linuxchix.org/pipermail/courses/ for
postings to the lists recently. If you haven't been getting them, check
that you are subscribed to the various topics at
http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses and then contact
courses-owner@linuxchix.org

-Mary
From ekco9595@rogers.com  Wed Jun  2 11:05:44 2004
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From: Steve <ekco9595@rogers.com>
To: courses@linuxchix.org
Subject: Re: [Courses] hmmm
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 17:02:38 -0400
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Oh I see, apparently im suscribed to C,Perl,Unix and Networking.
btw is this just for girls? caues im no female, though I love the thought of 
girls into linux mmmm :P

On Tuesday 01 June 2004 19:12, you wrote:
> The courses list has been very quiet lately.  Because the courses are all
> run by volunteers this happens when the course instructor is unable to
> maintain thier planned schedule, or when they feel there is not enough
> interest in the course, or some other reason.
>
> But there has been some messages in the last 6 months.  I have had a look
> at the list of people subscribed to courses and your name is there.   It
> may be that you have only signed up for some courses, and they are ones
> that are no-longer running.  If you leave all boxes un-checked you will get
> mail from any course.
>
> sue
>
> On Wednesday 02 Jun 2004 3:26 am, ekco9595@rogers.com wrote:
> > hmm, i signed up for the linuxchix mailing list like 6months ago or
> > something and not one message have i recived lol, im wondering am i not
> > properly signed up here or is this mailing list just not being used at
> > all anymore? ;0
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Courses mailing list
> > Courses@linuxchix.org
> > http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses

From meredydd@everybuddy.com  Wed Jun  2 11:49:25 2004
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From: Meredydd <meredydd@everybuddy.com>
To: courses@linuxchix.org
Subject: Re: [Courses] hmmm
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 02:48:27 +0100
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On Tuesday 01 June 2004 22:02, Steve wrote:
> Oh I see, apparently im suscribed to C,Perl,Unix and Networking.
> btw is this just for girls?
Both genders welcome, with the exception of the female-only list.

> caues im no female, though I love the 
> thought of girls into linux mmmm :P
On second thoughts...don't feed the troll. If he really wanted to 
participate, he'd have read the website before joining the lists.

Oh, and I really need to finish up that FAQ, but just for you, here's 
the short version: We're not girls. We're not chicks. We're not 
bitches. And you're certainly not acting like someone I want on my 
course. Kindly shape up, or shove off.

Meredydd
From ekco9595@rogers.com  Wed Jun  2 12:05:21 2004
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From: Steve <ekco9595@rogers.com>
To: Meredydd <meredydd@everybuddy.com>
Subject: Re: [Courses] hmmm
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 18:01:33 -0400
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I did read the website 6 months ago.. ouch christ, well I think you were wrong 
about a one thing, "We're not bitches". 

On Tuesday 01 June 2004 21:48, you wrote:
> On Tuesday 01 June 2004 22:02, Steve wrote:
> > Oh I see, apparently im suscribed to C,Perl,Unix and Networking.
> > btw is this just for girls?
>
> Both genders welcome, with the exception of the female-only list.
>
> > caues im no female, though I love the
> > thought of girls into linux mmmm :P
>
> On second thoughts...don't feed the troll. If he really wanted to
> participate, he'd have read the website before joining the lists.
>
> Oh, and I really need to finish up that FAQ, but just for you, here's
> the short version: We're not girls. We're not chicks. We're not
> bitches. And you're certainly not acting like someone I want on my
> course. Kindly shape up, or shove off.
>
> Meredydd

From anthony@futurepoint.com  Wed Jun  2 12:46:33 2004
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From: Anthony Gorecki <anthony@futurepoint.com>
To: courses@linuxchix.org
Subject: Re: [Courses] hmmm
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=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On June 01, 2004 6:48 pm, Meredydd wrote:
> Both genders welcome, with the exception of the female-only list.

I'm certain there are at least a few spies on our side which keep a watchfu=
l=20
eye on that mailing list. After all, how else could we manage to survive=20
against such a large number of geek women, all of which who most certainly=
=20
scheme and plot amongst themselves in rebellion of the male-dominated=20
technology sector?


In the interest of provoking increased activity on the courses list, does=20
anyone have a topic which they would like to see covered?=20

Although somewhat more advanced, I have been meaning to participate in a mo=
re=20
in-depth discussion about Linux cryptographic loop-back devices for quite a=
=20
while, however I haven't previously had the opportunity due to work-related=
=20
time constraints.


=2D --=20
Best Regards,
Anthony Gorecki
=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.3.4 (GNU/Linux)

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From carla@bratgrrl.com  Wed Jun  2 13:04:32 2004
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From: Carla Schroder <carla@bratgrrl.com>
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On Tuesday 01 June 2004 2:02 pm, Steve wrote:
> Oh I see, apparently im suscribed to C,Perl,Unix and Networking.
> btw is this just for girls? caues im no female, though I love the thought of 
> girls into linux mmmm :P
> 

You could try to be a good liar, sheesh. 

I recommend this site, you'll find a soulmate here: 
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palace/6314/

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carla Schroder
this message brought to you
by Libranet 2.8 and Kmail
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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From: Carla Schroder <carla@bratgrrl.com>
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On Tuesday 01 June 2004 7:45 pm, Anthony Gorecki wrote:
> In the interest of provoking increased activity on the courses list, does 
> anyone have a topic which they would like to see covered? 
> 
> Although somewhat more advanced, I have been meaning to participate in a 
more 
> in-depth discussion about Linux cryptographic loop-back devices for quite a 
> while, however I haven't previously had the opportunity due to work-related 
> time constraints.

I'd like to see some howtos on the user side of cryptography tools- PGP for 
email, SSH/SSL for servers like Apache and Postfix. Oh, and implementing 
HTTPS. And folks are always asking about creating an encrypted directory or 
partition, so when you drop files into it they are automatically encrypted.

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carla Schroder
this message brought to you
by Libranet 2.8 and Kmail
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From: Mary <mary-linuxchix@puzzling.org>
To: courses@linuxchix.org
Subject: Course suggestions, running a course (Re: [Courses] hmmm)
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On Tue, Jun 01, 2004, Anthony Gorecki wrote:
> In the interest of provoking increased activity on the courses list,
> does anyone have a topic which they would like to see covered? 

Here's a few that have been raised in the past year or so:

 - regular expressions
 - power editing (with vi(m) or emacs)
 - kernel hacking (a number of lessons were posted to grrls-only a few
   years ago, and kernel topics could go on the under-used kernelchix
   list)

A couple I'd be interested in personally:
 - using the GIMP (intermediate -- advanced)
 - cool application of the week (highlighting interesting Linux
   applications, a bit different from the commands course but similar in
   spirit)

People might also want to consider non-techie courses: Carla's small
business one was very interesting.

I would suggest to course maintainers that they keep it short and
focussed (six lessons at the most). I don't think any course maintainer
has managed to sustain more than six months of activity on this list and
many much less. I think the readers would prefer to have a short course
which is complete than a long one that falters.

If you want to run a course, please notify volunteers@linuxchix.org and
also courses-owner@linuxchix.org so that they can add a topic for you.

-Mary
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From: Sue Stones <suzo@spin.net.au>
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Subject: Re: [Courses] hmmm
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On Wednesday 02 Jun 2004 7:02 am, Steve wrote:
> Oh I see, apparently im suscribed to C,Perl,Unix and Networking.
> btw is this just for girls? caues im no female, 

The C and Networking courses have stoped running, I am not sure about Perl. 
You can read through the archives to get  the course material.  At some stage 
I will get around to linking all the course material to the webpage.

As far as I know the Unix comands course hasn't stoped running, but there 
hasn't been any activity there for a while.  The other course that should 
still be active is the Firewalls course that Mary mentioned.

No you certainly don't need to be a woman to participate, in fact some of the 
courses are not run by women.  BUT you do need to treat everyone 
respectfully. Comments like

>though I love the thought of girls into linux mmmm :P

are not respectfull, and will result in a strong reaction from people, as you 
have already seen.  I am happy to assume that you didn't know this, and 
hopefully others will forgive it once, though I have no right to speak for 
them.

sue




> On Tuesday 01 June 2004 19:12, you wrote:
> > The courses list has been very quiet lately.  Because the courses are all
> > run by volunteers this happens when the course instructor is unable to
> > maintain thier planned schedule, or when they feel there is not enough
> > interest in the course, or some other reason.
> >
> > But there has been some messages in the last 6 months.  I have had a look
> > at the list of people subscribed to courses and your name is there.   It
> > may be that you have only signed up for some courses, and they are ones
> > that are no-longer running.  If you leave all boxes un-checked you will
> > get mail from any course.
> >
> > sue
> >
> > On Wednesday 02 Jun 2004 3:26 am, ekco9595@rogers.com wrote:
> > > hmm, i signed up for the linuxchix mailing list like 6months ago or
> > > something and not one message have i recived lol, im wondering am i not
> > > properly signed up here or is this mailing list just not being used at
> > > all anymore? ;0
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Courses mailing list
> > > Courses@linuxchix.org
> > > http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
>
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses

From mary@home.puzzling.org  Wed Jun  2 16:32:12 2004
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From: Mary <mary-linuxchix@puzzling.org>
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Subject: Trolling (Re: [Courses] hmmm)
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On Tue, Jun 01, 2004, Steve wrote:
> I did read the website 6 months ago.. ouch christ, well I think you were wrong 
> about a one thing, "We're not bitches". 

As amusing as this is, can it either go away (preferrable) or move to a
list where, while inflammatory, it would at least be on-topic?

Thanks,

Mary
From ekco9595@rogers.com  Thu Jun  3 01:02:29 2004
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Subject: Re: [Courses] hmmm
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I don't see what your talking about, I didn't lie about anything, and I
strongly dislike and do not beleive in lieing at all.. anyways

>
> On Tuesday 01 June 2004 23:04, Carla Schroder wrote:
> > On Tuesday 01 June 2004 2:02 pm, Steve wrote:
> > > Oh I see, apparently im suscribed to C,Perl,Unix and Networking.
> > > btw is this just for girls? caues im no female, though I love the
> > > thought of girls into linux mmmm :P
> >
> > You could try to be a good liar, sheesh.
> >
> > I recommend this site, you'll find a soulmate here:
> > http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palace/6314/

From ekco9595@rogers.com  Thu Jun  3 02:15:19 2004
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From: Steve <ekco9595@rogers.com>
To: <angelorum@murrell.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [Courses] hmmm
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Acutally hade you read more carefully, you would have also seen another user 
say the same again about not reading before signing up, then which you would 
have read my reply 'I did read it _6 months ago_'. Christ all I said one time 
in one email was I liked the thought of girls into linux, and I stand by that 
statemnet still. If 'you people' simply can't take a comment like that 
without getting ants in your pants and throwing a fit then I suggest you need 
to lighten up and take the plunger out of your ass. seriously. Also perhaps 
if you don't want guys to be guys then maybe you might want to consider 
making it women only instead of telling guys you can be here but your going 
to have to not act like a guy at all. meh.

On Wednesday 02 June 2004 12:09, you wrote:
> Allow me to explain for you, Steve, linuxchix is a community for women who
> like Linux, and for supporting women in computing. Comments such as  > btw
> is this just for girls?
>
>   > caues im no female,
>
> show that you don't even care to read the relevent documentation before
> you sign up for things. As plain as day there is a large bold heading at
> the bottom of the LinuxChix Mailing Lists webpage, "Are LinuxChix lists
> really just for women?", and it says no they do not exclude males,
> although the lists are primarily meant for women.
> Further more it goes on, in a friendly  manner, "Act as if your
> mom/sister/daughter were subscribed, and everything should be fine :).",
> i.e. don't go advertising that you are signed up to linuxchix mailing
> lists and you are a guy, who cares really. However, you proceed in a
> matter-of-fact way to state that you are actually a guy, and you sound
> like you are are looking for a confrontation.
> You may have been able to get away with the above, but then you make the
> somewhat irrelevant and quite inapropriate remark> though I love the
> thought of girls into linux mmmm :P don't talk like that in the linuxchix
> mailing lists, people are here to learn and chat about linux, not
> 'hook-up', it portrays a bad sterotype for linux guys and reflects poorly
> on your character.
> Then to top it all off you reply arrogantly to legitimate linuxchix users
> who where pointing out that you were in fault so you could learn from your
> mistakes,> well I think you were wrong about a one thing, "We're not
> bitches". Now that isn't constructive at all, it only inrritates people,
> not exactly a good way to make friends.
> A check of my inbox reveals yet another message from you which doesn't
> help your plight either,> I don't see what your talking about, I didn't lie
> about anything... nobody said you lied about anything, the comment,
>
> > You could try to be a good liar, sheesh.
>
> was in relation to the linuxchix documentation which you should go and
> read, see the second reference.
> In summary, yeah you are a guy, good for you, now take a seat and act
> civil towards other users on these mailing lists, please.
> References:
> http://www.linuxchix.org
> http://www.linuxchix.org/content/docs/listinfo.html
>
> I may be a new user on linuxchix, but the rules of netiquette are
> universal. --Angelorum

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From: dave <sydave@syberdave.net>
Subject: Re: [Courses] hmmm
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Well, I've just subscribed today and expected to get tons of messages.
Oh well. Looks like you're properly signed up though.

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:26:48 -0400
ekco9595@rogers.com wrote:

> hmm, i signed up for the linuxchix mailing list like 6months ago or something 
> and not one message have i recived lol, im wondering am i not properly signed 
> up here or is this mailing list just not being used at all anymore? ;0
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
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List-admin hat on... 

Once again, I'll remind you *all* that Linuxchix has two rules: 

Be polite.
Be helpful. 

This discussion is veering wildly off-topic and away from polite and 
helpful.  You've already been asked to stop or move it off-list, and since 
this hasn't happened, I'm putting a moderator lock on this list.  That means 
that all posts will have to be read and approved by a moderator, and will 
slow down posting to the list considerably.  I'm sorry for the inconvience 
to the subscribers and particularly to my fellow list admins. 

Terri 

From meredydd@everybuddy.com  Sat Jun  5 03:24:06 2004
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From: Meredydd <meredydd@everybuddy.com>
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On Wednesday 02 June 2004 04:11, Carla Schroder wrote:
> And folks are always asking about creating an
> encrypted directory or partition, so when you drop files into it they
> are automatically encrypted.

Dammit, that was my patch. Sorry.

I'm quite interested in starting up again, but the problem is that I'm 
really not sure I'm going to have the time to keep it up. Perhaps I'll 
just post the odd thing to the site, stop calling a course, and start 
calling it a little guide...

Meredydd

From mary@home.puzzling.org  Sat Jun  5 17:00:34 2004
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From: Mary <mary-linuxchix@puzzling.org>
To: courses@linuxchix.org, courses-owner@linuxchix.org
Subject: Moderator lock lifted (Re: [Courses] Re: hmmm)
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On Wed, Jun 02, 2004, Terri Oda  wrote:
> This discussion is veering wildly off-topic and away from polite and
> helpful.  You've already been asked to stop or move it off-list, and
> since this hasn't happened, I'm putting a moderator lock on this list.
> That means that all posts will have to be read and approved by a
> moderator, and will slow down posting to the list considerably.  I'm
> sorry for the inconvience to the subscribers and particularly to my
> fellow list admins. 

Hey everyone,

It's been a few days, so I've lifted the moderator lock on this list
(mainly so my "Domain names" course can go ahead!)

Please keep discsussion on this list to:

  - potential courses; and
  - actual running courses.

If you want to discuss other things, we've got heaps of lists with
various topics, see http://www.linuxchix.org/content/docs/listinfo.html

-Mary
From suzo@spin.net.au  Sat Jun  5 16:43:54 2004
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I don't see why courses should be expected to maintain a consistent 
pace.  OK it might seem a little odd to those who are very new tot eh 
lists, but most people are so busy that I think producing a few 
"lessons" then having a break, followed by a few more "lessons" is a 
more accessible way of doing things any way.  Gives those who have 
fallen behind a chance to catch up.

sue


Meredydd wrote:

> On Wednesday 02 June 2004 04:11, Carla Schroder wrote:
> 
>>And folks are always asking about creating an
>>encrypted directory or partition, so when you drop files into it they
>>are automatically encrypted.
> 
> 
> Dammit, that was my patch. Sorry.
> 
> I'm quite interested in starting up again, but the problem is that I'm 
> really not sure I'm going to have the time to keep it up. Perhaps I'll 
> just post the odd thing to the site, stop calling a course, and start 
> calling it a little guide...
> 
> Meredydd
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
> 
> 

From haunter03@hotmail.com  Sat Jun  5 17:56:59 2004
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Subject: [Courses] text editors course vim emacs
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Hi,

I would love an emacs course.
I've being using emacs for ~12months now but I can't say I know all the 
advanced features (I know some basic features but not that many).

As for vi(m), I wouldn't mind a course in that either.

~2nd Yr comp. sci student, I use emacs for programming; html, perl, python, 
c and flex/bison and whatever else I may need.

Regards,
Gareth

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From suzo@spin.net.au  Sat Jun  5 22:45:52 2004
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On Saturday 05 Jun 2004 5:56 pm, Guru - wrote:
> As for vi(m), I wouldn't mind a course in that either.

I may be able to do something on vi in the future.  Though that won't be for a 
few months.  I don't know much about the enhancenments to vi that make up 
Vim, but I have a book on it!  

Although there may have been someone who knows Vim who intened to run a course 
specifically on Vim.

Either way its in the pipeline, though how long the pipeline is I dunno.

sue
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From: Namik Dala <lc-courses@nada.refused.cc>
To: courses@linuxchix.org
Subject: Re: [Courses] text editors course vim emacs
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Hello,

On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 05:56:47PM +1000, Guru - wrote:
> As for vi(m), I wouldn't mind a course in that either.

For vi, there is a nice (and very old) one:

        http://www.google.com/search?q=vilearn.shar

                                                -Namik-
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From: Devdas Bhagat <devdas@dvb.homelinux.org>
To: courses@linuxchix.org
Subject: Re: [Courses] text editors course vim emacs
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On 06/06/04 13:54 +0200, Namik Dala wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 05:56:47PM +1000, Guru - wrote:
> > As for vi(m), I wouldn't mind a course in that either.
vimtutor(1)

Devdas Bhagat
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From: Meredydd <meredydd@everybuddy.com>
To: courses@linuxchix.org, Devdas Bhagat <devdas@dvb.homelinux.org>
Subject: Re: [Courses] text editors course vim emacs
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:38:37 +0100
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On Sunday 06 June 2004 15:00, Devdas Bhagat wrote:
> > On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 05:56:47PM +1000, Guru - wrote:
> > > As for vi(m), I wouldn't mind a course in that either.
>
> vimtutor(1)

meredydd@rhodium:~$ man vimtutor
No manual entry for vimtutor

I appreciate that you just want to share knowledge in as concise a form 
as possible, but do you suppose you could include a little explanation 
alongside those posts which consist solely of a manpage reference? I'm 
not accusing you of RTFMing, but I'd love to see more along the lines 
of your recent post on bouncing certain email addresses (sorry, lost 
the reference) - quick answer for the curious, explanation of how/why, 
and then a reference to the manpage as further reading.

More directly: Where should I go for that page if it's not on my system? 
I'm pretty sure I installed the vim package which came with my 
distribution...

Meredydd
From myriam@pharma-traduction.ch  Mon Jun  7 00:56:43 2004
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From: Myriam Schweingruber <myriam@pharma-traduction.ch>
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Subject: Re: [Courses] text editors course vim emacs
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Am Sonntag, 6. Juni 2004 16.38 schrieb Meredydd:
> On Sunday 06 June 2004 15:00, Devdas Bhagat wrote:
> > > On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 05:56:47PM +1000, Guru - wrote:
> > > > As for vi(m), I wouldn't mind a course in that either.
> >
> > vimtutor(1)
>
> meredydd@rhodium:~$ man vimtutor
> No manual entry for vimtutor
SNIP
> More directly: Where should I go for that page if it's not on my system?
> I'm pretty sure I installed the vim package which came with my
> distribution...
well, just type "vimtutor" in your shell, as it should be already on your
system if the vim-installations worked well.
It realy is a nice and short tutorial easy to use.

Myriam

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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:22:23 +0100
From: Telsa Gwynne <hobbit@aloss.ukuu.org.uk>
To: courses@linuxchix.org
Subject: Re: [Courses] text editors course vim emacs
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On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 03:38:37PM +0100 or thereabouts, Meredydd wrote:
> On Sunday 06 June 2004 15:00, Devdas Bhagat wrote:
> > > On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 05:56:47PM +1000, Guru - wrote:
> > > > As for vi(m), I wouldn't mind a course in that either.
> >
> > vimtutor(1)
> 
> meredydd@rhodium:~$ man vimtutor
> No manual entry for vimtutor
> 
> I appreciate that you just want to share knowledge in as concise a form 
> as possible, but do you suppose you could include a little explanation 
> alongside those posts which consist solely of a manpage reference? I'm 

For the record, it's a program you can run which teaches you the
basics of the editor.

When you type 'vimtutor', the screen redraws and welcomes you
to vimtutor. You're actually running vim then, reading the
contents of the file and typing the commands it tells you to.

Here's a piece of it: 

                     Lesson 1.3: TEXT EDITING - DELETION
                                                                                
                                                                                
** While in Normal mode press   x  to delete the character under the cursor. **
                                                                                
  1. Move the cursor to the line below marked --->.
                                                                                
  2. To fix the errors, move the cursor until it is on top of the
     character to be deleted.
                                                                                
  3. Press the  x  key to delete the unwanted character.
                                                                                
  4. Repeat steps 2 through 4 until the sentence is correct.
                                                                                
---> The ccow jumpedd ovverr thhe mooon.
                                                                                
  5. Now that the line is correct, go on to Lesson 1.4.

It covers many of the basics. I do have a copy of the book it
mentions at the end (Vi IMproved, by Steve Oualline) and that
and vimtutor will get you started, although I found there were
a number of things I just had to ask other vim-users.

Fedora takes the vim source rpm and splits it into vim-X11, 
vim-common, vim-enhanced and vim-minimal. On Fedora, vimtutor 
is in the vim-enhanced package. 

I don't know how the other distros split it all up.

Telsa

From harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au  Mon Jun  7 03:03:22 2004
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 01:02:19 +0800
From: Harry <harrymc@decisions-and-designs.com.au>
To: courses@linuxchix.org
Subject: Re: [Courses] text editors course vim emacs
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On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:22:23 +0100 Telsa Gwynne <hobbit@aloss.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:

[...]

> Fedora takes the vim source rpm and splits it into vim-X11, 
> vim-common, vim-enhanced and vim-minimal. On Fedora, vimtutor 
> is in the vim-enhanced package. 
> 
> I don't know how the other distros split it all up.

Hi Telsa

The debian command (using woody [aka stable]) :

# apt-cache search vim

lists (amoungst other related packages):

vim - Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor
vim-gtk - Vi IMproved - GTK version
vim-perl - Vi IMproved, with perl scripting support
vim-python - Vi IMproved, with python scripting support
vim-ruby - Vi IMproved, with ruby scripting support
vim-scripts - plugins for vim, adding bells and whistles
vim-tcl - Vi IMproved, with tcl scripting support

so I think vimtutor is wrapped up with vim and vim-gtk. I'm not sure
if it is part of the other vims with extra support but I'd guess so.
I've got plain vim installed and vimtutor JustWorks(tm).

Hmmm. When you say source rpms I mean the binary packages eg:
/var/cache/apt/archives/vim_6.0.093-2_i386.deb but I have compiled vim
from source and it was pretty straightforward too.

cu
Harry

-- 
Are you a computer angel?       http://www.computerangels.org.au/
From schweingruber@pharma-traduction.ch  Mon Jun  7 00:52:16 2004
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From: Myriam Rita Schweingruber <schweingruber@pharma-traduction.ch>
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Subject: Re: [Courses] text editors course vim emacs
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:42:48 +0200
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Am Sonntag, 6. Juni 2004 16.38 schrieb Meredydd:
> On Sunday 06 June 2004 15:00, Devdas Bhagat wrote:
> > > On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 05:56:47PM +1000, Guru - wrote:
> > > > As for vi(m), I wouldn't mind a course in that either.
> >
> > vimtutor(1)
>
> meredydd@rhodium:~$ man vimtutor
> No manual entry for vimtutor
SNIP
> More directly: Where should I go for that page if it's not on my system?
> I'm pretty sure I installed the vim package which came with my
> distribution...
well, just type "vimtutor" in your shell, as it should be already on your=20
system if the vim-installations worked well.
It realy is a nice and short tutorial easy to use.

Myriam

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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:51:48 +1000
From: Mary <mary-linuxchix@puzzling.org>
To: courses@linuxchix.org
Subject: Move editor discussion to techtalk pls (Re: [Courses] text editors
        course vim emacs)
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On Sat, Jun 05, 2004, Guru - wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I would love an emacs course.  I've being using emacs for ~12months
> now but I can't say I know all the advanced features (I know some
> basic features but not that many).
> 
> As for vi(m), I wouldn't mind a course in that either.

Hey folks,

Although the above was itself on-topic, much of the subsequent
discussion is not.

Here's what's on-topic for this list:

 - course lessons;
 - discussions based on course lessons; and
 - some discussion of potential courses.

Sorry, but "alternative ways of learning foo" are not on-topic here,
unless you're running a "how to find ways to learn about foo" COURSE,
otherwise move "ways of learning foo" discussions to techtalk please.

People discussing potential courses should keep in mind the Maxim of
Volunteer Organisations:

    If noone says "I'll do it", it will not happen, regardless of how
    many people say "it would be really great if someone would..."

Try and limit the "it would be really great if someone would..."
discussion in that light. (Yes, I know I started it.)

-Mary
From pat.callahan@earthlink.net  Mon Jun  7 21:30:50 2004
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 07:25:08 -0400
From: Patrick Callahan <pat.callahan@earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: [Courses] text editors course vim emacs
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Also for vi, there's this:

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/training/

with a link under it for 
vi intro -- the cheat sheet method.

I've not taken this one, but I've gone through several other tutorials on their site and found them to be professionally written, comprehensible and very informative.  I've learned a lot from them.

You have to register in order to take the tutorials but registration is free and not very intrusive.  Don't let the word "developer" scare you away.

You can sign up at http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux. Just click the link at the left.

--Patrick

On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:54:16 +0200
Namik Dala <lc-courses@nada.refused.cc> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 05:56:47PM +1000, Guru - wrote:
> > As for vi(m), I wouldn't mind a course in that either.
> 
> For vi, there is a nice (and very old) one:
> 
>         http://www.google.com/search?q=vilearn.shar
> 
>                                               -Namik-
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
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To: courses@linuxchix.org
From: Steven Walker <swalk@ya.com>
Subject: Re: [Courses] text editors course vim emacs
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>Also for vi, there's this:
>
>http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/training/


What a great resource - I had not come across this vault of goodies.

As a long time lurker can I say how pleased I am at the recent activity and 
that I look forward to improving my Linux skills

Steve 

From fboonen@vub.ac.be  Tue Jun  8 23:20:20 2004
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is there a problem with one-lesson classes? (or maybe 2 lessons)


I might do a bit about using cvs for coursework then
(wich are mostly my own experiences in usefull thingies)
Finne

On Tue, 8
Jun 2004, Steven Walker wrote:

>
> >Also for vi, there's this:
> >
> >http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/training/
>
>
> What a great resource - I had not come across this vault of goodies.
>
> As a long time lurker can I say how pleased I am at the recent activity and
> that I look forward to improving my Linux skills
>
> Steve
>
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
>

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On Tue, Jun 08, 2004, Finne Boonen wrote:
> is there a problem with one-lesson classes? (or maybe 2 lessons)

There's no problem with any kind of courses. More courses are better!

Even for a short course thoough, run through the steps at
www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/running_a_course.html -- there are
lots of potentially interested people who aren't subscribed

-Mary
From lyric.courses@lyrically.net  Wed Jun  9 08:46:37 2004
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From: John Stoneham <lyric.courses@lyrically.net>
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Subject: [Courses] course request: intro to BIND
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I'm still working on coming up with a course I can teach myself so as to give
back to the community a bit, but since I'm sure there is someone out there
who knows this stuff, and the How-Tos don't seem to work properly for me,
might I suggest someone teach a course on introductory BIND setup?

What I am hoping to learn how to do is:

a) to set up a caching nameserver for use by my internal network, where I can
override the response given to certain hostnames; e.g. "use the parent DNS
server for all queries except for a.b.c, for which you should serve up
address 172.168.x.x instead of the otherwise world-visible address x.y.z.q."

b) to host my domain DNS, complete with subdomains.

Does anyone have this kind of expertise?

(Now, to come up with a course -I- can teach... I think perhaps 'Introduction
to Unit Testing Your Software' might be the way to go. JUnit, CppUnit...
yeah. That might work.)

- John
From suzo@spin.net.au  Wed Jun  9 09:52:25 2004
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From: Sue Stones <suzo@spin.net.au>
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Subject: Re: [Courses] course request: intro to BIND
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On Wednesday 09 Jun 2004 8:29 am, John Stoneham wrote:
> (Now, to come up with a course -I- can teach... I think perhaps
> 'Introduction to Unit Testing Your Software' might be the way to go. JUnit,
> CppUnit... yeah. That might work.)

Sounds interesting - I don't even know what Unit Testing is.  But I know that 
testing is important.

sue
From anthony@futurepoint.com  Wed Jun  9 16:10:03 2004
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From: Anthony Gorecki <anthony@futurepoint.com>
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Subject: Re: [Courses] course request: intro to BIND
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=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On June 08, 2004 3:29 pm, John Stoneham wrote:
> me, might I suggest someone teach a course on introductory BIND setup?

I would be willing to volunteer to teach a course on BIND, however it's=20
normally not a topic which can be considered introductory, by any means. Ho=
w=20
many of you are interested in this topic, and what specific features would=
=20
you like to see outlined aside from the generic BIND implementations?


=2D --=20
Best Regards,
Anthony Gorecki
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From: Mary <mary-linuxchix@puzzling.org>
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On Tue, Jun 08, 2004, Anthony Gorecki wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On June 08, 2004 3:29 pm, John Stoneham wrote:
> > me, might I suggest someone teach a course on introductory BIND setup?
> 
> I would be willing to volunteer to teach a course on BIND, however it's 
> normally not a topic which can be considered introductory, by any means.

There's no requirement that courses be introductory either. I guess it
gives you a bigger audience.

> How many of you are interested in this topic, and what specific
> features would you like to see outlined aside from the generic BIND
> implementations?

I'd be interested in a discussion of nameserver policy (expiry times,
secondaries, emergency changes...) but I'm already a competant BIND
admin, so I probably don't want the same things as the original poster.

-Mary
From jmontano@telesat.com.co  Wed Jun  9 23:22:22 2004
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I'm interested in Dynamic DNS updates and Slave servers

Anthony Gorecki wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>On June 08, 2004 3:29 pm, John Stoneham wrote:
>  
>
>>me, might I suggest someone teach a course on introductory BIND setup?
>>    
>>
>
>I would be willing to volunteer to teach a course on BIND, however it's 
>normally not a topic which can be considered introductory, by any means. How 
>many of you are interested in this topic, and what specific features would 
>you like to see outlined aside from the generic BIND implementations?
>
>- -- 
>Best Regards,
>Anthony Gorecki
>
From lyric.courses@lyrically.net  Thu Jun 10 00:47:38 2004
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From: John Stoneham <lyric.courses@lyrically.net>
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Subject: Re: [Courses] course request: intro to BIND
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> I would be willing to volunteer to teach a course on BIND, however it's 
> normally not a topic which can be considered introductory, by any means. How 
> many of you are interested in this topic, and what specific features would 
> you like to see outlined aside from the generic BIND implementations?

Well, as the original poster, I'm certainly interested.

As I mentioned, my primary interest is in learning how to provide primary DNS
for a personal domain. Secondarily I'd like to be able to override the
standard zonefile.

Reason for that - my web server is behind a NAT firewall which does
port-forwarding to it. Thus its world-visible address is x.y.z.q but within
the firewall you have to use its 172.168.x.x address; I'd like to be able to
use 'www.domain.com' from outside or inside the firewall and get the correct
address (x.y.z.q if outside, 172.168.x.x if inside), without having to use
/etc/hosts or c:\winnt\system32\drivers\etc\hosts on every machine to
override the world-visible address it's getting from the standard DNS
(especially because I have laptops that move from within to outside the
firewall and back all the time).

- John
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>Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:51:54 +1000
>From: Sue Stones <suzo@spin.net.au>
>To: courses@linuxchix.org
>Subject: Re: [Courses] course request: intro to BIND
>
>Reply-To: suzo@spin.net.au
>Message: 5
>
>On Wednesday 09 Jun 2004 8:29 am, John Stoneham wrote:
>  
>
>>(Now, to come up with a course -I- can teach... I think perhaps
>>'Introduction to Unit Testing Your Software' might be the way to go. JUnit,
>>CppUnit... yeah. That might work.)
>>    
>>
>
>Sounds interesting - I don't even know what Unit Testing is.  But I know that 
>testing is important.
>
>sue
>

Unit testing involves testing a specific piece of a specific program 
that is usually part of a larger application or system.  Unit testing is 
typically performed by the programmer writing the code or one of his 
code reviewers, and it involves checking all valid inputs and outputs 
for a specific code segment.

-- 
Brian Masinick
mailto:masinick@yahoo.com


From laurel@sdf.lonestar.org  Thu Jun 10 07:22:04 2004
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From: Laurel Fan <laurel@sdf.lonestar.org>
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On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 05:08:20PM -0400, Brian Masinick wrote:
> Unit testing is typically performed by the programmer writing the
> code or one of his code reviewers, and it involves checking all
> valid inputs and outputs for a specific code segment.

Don't forget the invalid inputs!

-- 
laurel@sdf.lonestar.org
http://dreadnought.gorgorg.org
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Brian Masinick wrote:
> Unit testing involves testing a specific piece of a specific program 
> that is usually part of a larger application or system.  Unit testing is 
> typically performed by the programmer writing the code or one of his 
> code reviewers, and it involves checking all valid inputs and outputs 
> for a specific code segment.
> 

I'm interested on a course on that.

sue

(ps actually I'm probably interested in any course anyone wants to run!)
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Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Courses] course request: intro to BIND
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At 04:00 10/06/2004, Anthony Gorecki wrote:
>Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 23:08:41 -0700


>I would be willing to volunteer to teach a course on BIND, however it's
>normally not a topic which can be considered introductory, by any means. How
>many of you are interested in this topic, and what specific features would
>you like to see outlined aside from the generic BIND implementations?

Even the greatest BIND guru must have started with an introduction. I plan 
to run DNS on my home web server and would really appreciate a good 
introduction and a forum to ask stupid questions.

Steve


From rasjidw@openminddev.net  Fri Jun 25 23:07:00 2004
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From: Rasjid Wilcox <rasjidw@openminddev.net>
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On Wednesday 02 June 2004 13:11, Carla Schroder wrote:
> And folks are always asking about creating an encrypted directory or
> partition, so when you drop files into it they are automatically encrypted.

I have played with EncFS.  It is easy to set up and it seems to work well.  
See http://arg0.net/users/vgough/encfs.html for details.

Cheers,

Rasjid.

-- 
Rasjid Wilcox
Canberra, Australia (UTC +10 hrs)
http://www.openminddev.net

From bugghy@SAFe-mail.net  Sun Jun 27 05:17:28 2004
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--=-SY0tfwykcgP8hBG/YE9O
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

        I use cfs: http://bsdnews.org/ (Issue #3: An Encrypted File System on a
USB Thumbdrive)

        Simple script to setup everything needed (the script is for freebsd but
it can easily be ported to linux)
http://rootshell.be/~bugghy/sources/program/bash/cfs.sh

        If you use fbsd you can try gbde encryption (though it wasn't proprely
analysed)
http://rootshell.be/~bugghy/sources/program/bash/gbde.sh

> On Fri, 2004-06-25 at 13:06, Rasjid Wilcox wrote:
> > On Wednesday 02 June 2004 13:11, Carla Schroder wrote:
> > > And folks are always asking about creating an encrypted directory or
> > > partition, so when you drop files into it they are automatically encr=
ypted.
> >=20
> > I have played with EncFS.  It is easy to set up and it seems to work we=
ll. =20
> > See http://arg0.net/users/vgough/encfs.html for details.
> >=20
> > Cheers,
> >=20
> > Rasjid.
--=20
------------------------
- Software is like sex -
-     it's better when -
-          it's free   -
-     Linus Torvalds   -
------------------------

--=-SY0tfwykcgP8hBG/YE9O--

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Subject: [Courses] mounting floppy
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Hello!

After mounting my floppy, I wrote a test file.  Now I
cannot umount /mymount/ even after removing the file. 
Also, nothing was actually written to the physical
disk.  

So, 2 questions:
1.  When is data actually written to the physical
disk?

2.  How do I unmount the floppy?

Thanks!!

Here is a transcript of what I did:
[root@localhost mymount]# mount -t vfat /dev/fd0
/mymount/

[root@localhost mymount]# vi test

[root@localhost mymount]# ls
test

[root@localhost mymount]# umount /mymount/
umount: /mymount: device is busy

[root@localhost mymount]# rm test
rm: remove regular file `test'? y

[root@localhost mymount]# ls -l
total 0

[root@localhost mymount]# umount /mymount
umount: /mymount: device is busy

[root@localhost mymount]# ls -l
total 0




                
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To: Mag Mu <maggmu@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Courses] mounting floppy
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> So, 2 questions:
> 1.  When is data actually written to the physical
> disk?
> 
it's written when syncing (or when unmounting), which happens "every so 
often", I don't know the specific times, someone else may know..

> 2.  How do I unmount the floppy?

First you have to leave the /mymount directory, then try unmounting it. 
  Because you are in the directory, you are actually "using" the floppy, 
hence why the system didn't let you unmount it.

> 
> Thanks!!
> 
> Here is a transcript of what I did:
> [root@localhost mymount]# mount -t vfat /dev/fd0
> /mymount/
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# vi test
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# ls
> test
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# umount /mymount/
> umount: /mymount: device is busy
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# rm test
> rm: remove regular file `test'? y
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# ls -l
> total 0
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# umount /mymount
> umount: /mymount: device is busy
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# ls -l
> total 0
> 
> 
> 
> 
>               
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From parody@u.washington.edu  Thu Aug  5 05:03:10 2004
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Subject: Re: [Courses] mounting floppy
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It looks like you are in the directory you are trying to umount.  Try 
"cd /" and then try umounting again.

maria

Mag Mu wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> After mounting my floppy, I wrote a test file.  Now I
> cannot umount /mymount/ even after removing the file. 
> Also, nothing was actually written to the physical
> disk.  
> 
> So, 2 questions:
> 1.  When is data actually written to the physical
> disk?
> 
> 2.  How do I unmount the floppy?
> 
> Thanks!!
> 
> Here is a transcript of what I did:
> [root@localhost mymount]# mount -t vfat /dev/fd0
> /mymount/
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# vi test
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# ls
> test
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# umount /mymount/
> umount: /mymount: device is busy
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# rm test
> rm: remove regular file `test'? y
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# ls -l
> total 0
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# umount /mymount
> umount: /mymount: device is busy
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# ls -l
> total 0
> 
> 
> 
> 
>               
> __________________________________
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From devdas@dvb.homelinux.org  Thu Aug  5 05:10:29 2004
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Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 00:40:21 +0530
From: Devdas Bhagat <devdas@dvb.homelinux.org>
To: Mag Mu <maggmu@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Courses] mounting floppy
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On 04/08/04 11:57 -0700, Mag Mu wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> After mounting my floppy, I wrote a test file.  Now I
> cannot umount /mymount/ even after removing the file. 
> Also, nothing was actually written to the physical
> disk.  

Wrong list. Please post to newchix, or techtalk.
I am not CC'ing either list, because I don't see a long discussion on
this coming up.

> 
> So, 2 questions:
> 1.  When is data actually written to the physical
> disk?

When you use a removable slow medium like a floppy disk, Linux buffers
the write until you unmount the medium, or until you call sync.

> 2.  How do I unmount the floppy?

<snip>
Transcript left for comparison.

> Here is a transcript of what I did:
> [root@localhost mymount]# mount -t vfat /dev/fd0
> /mymount/
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# vi test
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# ls
> test
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# umount /mymount/
> umount: /mymount: device is busy
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# rm test
> rm: remove regular file `test'? y
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# ls -l
> total 0
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# umount /mymount
> umount: /mymount: device is busy
> 
> [root@localhost mymount]# ls -l
> total 0
> 
I don't have a floppy disk drive here, so I can't do a real transcript,
but here is an attempt anyway. The // marks a comment, # is for a root
prompt, and $ is for my regular user prompt.

# With /mnt/floppy in /etc/fstab, I could just use 
# mount -t vfat /mnt/floppy
# I can also ignore specifying the fstype explicitly and let Linux do
# the guesswork
# mount /mnt/floppy works quite well

[devdas@evita devdas]$ mount -t vfat /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy

# At this point I am accessing the floppy.
[devdas@evita devdas]$ cd /mnt/floppy

# List files on the floppy
[devdas@evita floppy]$ ls

# Create a file
[devdas@evita floppy]$ touch file

# List again
[devdas@evita floppy]$ ls
file

# Move out prior to unmounting the disk
# While I am in the /mnt/floppy directory, there are open filehandles and
# that causes trouble with the unmout call.

[devdas@evita floppy]$ cd ..

# This unmounts the floppy and forces data to be written to disk.
[devdas@evita mnt]$ umount floppy
[devdas@evita mnt]$ 

I hope this helps.

Devdas Bhagat
From maggmu@yahoo.com  Thu Aug  5 05:18:59 2004
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From: Mag Mu <maggmu@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Courses] mounting floppy
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Oh!!  and I thought it was the test file.  Thanks,
that worked :)


--- Maria McKinley <parody@u.washington.edu> wrote:

> It looks like you are in the directory you are
> trying to umount.  Try 
> "cd /" and then try umounting again.
> 
> maria
> 
> Mag Mu wrote:
> 
> > Hello!
> > 
> > After mounting my floppy, I wrote a test file. 
> Now I
> > cannot umount /mymount/ even after removing the
> file. 
> > Also, nothing was actually written to the physical
> > disk.  
> > 
> > So, 2 questions:
> > 1.  When is data actually written to the physical
> > disk?
> > 
> > 2.  How do I unmount the floppy?
> > 
> > Thanks!!
> > 
> > Here is a transcript of what I did:
> > [root@localhost mymount]# mount -t vfat /dev/fd0
> > /mymount/
> > 
> > [root@localhost mymount]# vi test
> > 
> > [root@localhost mymount]# ls
> > test
> > 
> > [root@localhost mymount]# umount /mymount/
> > umount: /mymount: device is busy
> > 
> > [root@localhost mymount]# rm test
> > rm: remove regular file `test'? y
> > 
> > [root@localhost mymount]# ls -l
> > total 0
> > 
> > [root@localhost mymount]# umount /mymount
> > umount: /mymount: device is busy
> > 
> > [root@localhost mymount]# ls -l
> > total 0
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >             
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other
> providers!
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
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> >
>
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>
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I just configured and compiled my own kernel from source for the first 
time and found it a bit confusing.  The configuration options I picked 
the first time around caused the compilation process to fail.  Going 
with just the defaults, the compilation succeeded.  Now, I just need to 
try booting it and see what happens.

Based on the array of options in the 2.6 kernel, I figured I would let 
it be known that if anyone was interested in writing about it, I would 
like to see it as a course.  Basically, the details on what each option 
is, loading them as static vs. using modules, and anything else someone 
who doesn't have experience with kernels should know prior to delving 
into the kernel hacking course available.

And, barring anyone wanting to take that on,  can anyone recommend some 
resources they personally found better than most on learning the 
intimate details of configuring kernels?

tia
nicole

From suzo@spin.net.au  Sun Aug 15 13:10:59 2004
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On Sunday 15 August 2004 07:46, nicole wrote:
> I just configured and compiled my own kernel from source for the first
> time and found it a bit confusing.  

Do you know about the Kernel Hacking course that was run a while ago?  You 
will find the lessons here.  It is not an active course so post any questions 
or comments to the Kernel Hacking list.
http://www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/kernel_hacking/


The kernel hacking list would also be the aproriate place to ask for 
references etc.

sue
From nicole@nicsplace.net  Sun Aug 15 13:38:46 2004
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On Aug 14, 2004, at 11:10 PM, Sue Stones wrote:

> Do you know about the Kernel Hacking course that was run a while ago?  
> You
> will find the lessons here.  It is not an active course so post any 
> questions
> or comments to the Kernel Hacking list.
> http://www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/kernel_hacking/
>
>
> The kernel hacking list would also be the aproriate place to ask for
> references etc.
>
I did see it and reference it in my prior email.  I am more interested 
in something that explains all of the options you can configure when 
compiling a kernel from source before I delve into kernel hacking.  I 
am looking for something a little more basic at this point.

Thanks!
nicole

From suzo@spin.net.au  Sun Aug 15 14:38:14 2004
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On Sunday 15 August 2004 13:40, nicole wrote:
> I did see it and reference it in my prior email.  I am more interested
> in something that explains all of the options you can configure when
> compiling a kernel from source before I delve into kernel hacking.  I
> am looking for something a little more basic at this point.

OK, well I'd be interested in that too if it happend!

The kernel hacking list is a rather quiet one, so I don't know if that means 
that there are not may people interested in the kernel, or it just seems too 
hard!

That would still be the place to ask your questions, I am sure you would get 
answers there.  Good luck.

sue
From maru.delapena@gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 14:17:13 2005
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Hi I just sending my email address:

maru.delapena@gmail.com

From mary@home.puzzling.org  Wed Feb 16 07:08:22 2005
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On Tue, Feb 15, 2005, Lori David wrote:
> STOP SENDING.... I HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING TO UNSUBSCRIBE WITHOUT SUCCESS.

I've unsubscribed her manually (and also had a word about the all
capitals screaming email).

If anyone else is having trouble unsubscribing, please send mail to
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courses-owner@linuxchix.org are the only people who can help.

Thanks,

Mary

From jglouisjr@gmail.com  Wed Feb 16 07:52:32 2005
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Thanks Mary,

My ears are still ringing...


On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:07:20 +1100, Mary <mary-linuxchix@puzzling.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2005, Lori David wrote:
> > STOP SENDING.... I HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING TO UNSUBSCRIBE WITHOUT SUCCESS.
> 
> I've unsubscribed her manually (and also had a word about the all
> capitals screaming email).
> 
> If anyone else is having trouble unsubscribing, please send mail to
> courses-owner@linuxchix.org *only* and ask us for help. Sending mail in
> all capitals and other types of rudeness will not help your cause, and
> there's no point sending a second mail to the list when
> courses-owner@linuxchix.org are the only people who can help.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mary
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
>

From svyelunite@gmail.com  Wed Feb 16 10:15:54 2005
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thanks Mary :-)


On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:52:27 -0600, James Louis <jglouisjr@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Mary,
> 
> My ears are still ringing...
> 
> 
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:07:20 +1100, Mary <mary-linuxchix@puzzling.org> wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2005, Lori David wrote:
> > > STOP SENDING.... I HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING TO UNSUBSCRIBE WITHOUT SUCCESS.
> >
> > I've unsubscribed her manually (and also had a word about the all
> > capitals screaming email).
> >
> > If anyone else is having trouble unsubscribing, please send mail to
> > courses-owner@linuxchix.org *only* and ask us for help. Sending mail in
> > all capitals and other types of rudeness will not help your cause, and
> > there's no point sending a second mail to the list when
> > courses-owner@linuxchix.org are the only people who can help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mary
> > _______________________________________________
> > Courses mailing list
> > Courses@linuxchix.org
> > http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
>

From kisemboroy@yahoo.com  Sat Mar 12 19:38:49 2005
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Please send me the course contents of easy linux,
Thank.
Roy


Special people.
Yo's Roy.
                
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
From mary@home.puzzling.org  Sun Mar 13 09:37:19 2005
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From: Mary <mary-linuxchix@puzzling.org>
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Subject: Re: [Courses] send me the course content
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On Sat, Mar 12, 2005, ROY KISEMBO wrote:
> Please send me the course contents of easy linux,

Dear Roy,

Which course are you talking about? All LinuxChix course content are
available from http://www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/ and there is
no course there called "Easy Linux".

-Mary

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I'll be out of the office until September 6, 2005. Talk to you then.

-Tom

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I'll be out of the office until September 6, 2005. Talk to you then.

-Tom

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From: Mary <mary-linuxchix@puzzling.org>
To: announce@linuxchix.org, courses@linuxchix.org
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Subject: [Courses] New course: tools for participating in Free Software
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Hi everyone,

I'm planning to run a new course on the courses list shortly. It will
cover tools for participating in Free Software and related development.
This will *mostly* be course about version control systems, but some of
the earlier lessons will cover other things.

The version control lessons will focus on two things: an overview of
concepts, followed by examples in three separate version control
systems. This will be hands on, as in you will actually get practice
working using a revision control system.

To follow the course, subscribe to the courses mailing list at
http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses and make sure that
you're following *at least* the "Participating in Free Software" topic.

I'll be posting lessons (courses list lessons are just mailing list
posts on a particular topic) starting Sunday 18th September. I've put
dates next to the lessons, but might be a day or two out :)

The lessons will be:

 Sun Sept 18: Introduction and overview

 Thu Sept 22: Ways you can contribute to Free Software (code, documentation,
 user help, artwork...)

 Sun Sept 25: Coordination tools: bug trackers and mailing lists

 Thu Sept 29: Community tools: Chat programs, blogging and conferences.

[Now we get to the meaty stuff with version control, so I'm going to
post once a week from here on.]

 Thu Oct 6: an introduction to version control 1: what problem does it
 solve?

 Thu Oct 13: an introduction to version control 2: concepts (versions,
 checking out, committing, respositories)

 Thu Oct 20: introduction to our three VCSs: CVS, Subversion and Bazaar
 (version 2)

 Thu Oct 27: checking out, making a change, and committing it

 Thu Nov 3: conflicts: what happens when your changes clash?

 Thu Nov 10: setting up your own repository

[from here on, we'll be working exclusively with Bazaar 2]

 Thu Nov 17: an introduction to version control 3: distributed version
 control

 Thu Nov 24: simple distributed version control with Bazaar

-Mary

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From: Mary <mary-linuxchix@puzzling.org>
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People participating in my course, you should have gotten your first
message on Sunday. If you didn't get this message:
http://mailman.linuxchix.org/pipermail/courses/2005-September/001943.html
, check your settings.

Some people have had trouble with this, so I thought I'd post about it.
There are two types of messages to courses:
 1. messages with a topic
 2. messages without a topic.

To find out your settings, go to
http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses and log in right
down the bottom where it says "unsubscribe or edit options".

Once you've put in your password, have a look at your answers to "Which
topic categories would you like to subscribe to?"

These control the settings for messages with a topic. Here are the
options:

 1. You've selected some topics. This means that you will get messages
    with those topics and NOT get messages with other topics.

 2. You haven't selected any topics. This means that you will get ALL
    topic messages.

All course lessons have a topic, thanks to the extra tag in the subject.
So course lessons are controlled by your answer here. 

Now have a look at your answers to "Do you want to receive messages that
do not match any topic filter?". NOTE that it only takes effect if
you've selected things in the question above. It controls messages like
this one: if you choose "No" you won't get them, if you choose "Yes" you
will get them.

It seems confusing to us too, however the software we use is not
templatable on that screen, and we did not write it. If you want to help
improve it, offer suggestions upstream to the Mailman developers.

-Mary

From vaida.bogdan@gmail.com  Sun Sep 25 04:03:02 2005
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From: Vaida Bogdan <vaida.bogdan@gmail.com>
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 Hi, I would be interested to write some courses for this mailling list
(since some of the courses here really helped me). I work as a network
administrator and I know BSD/Linux systems pretty well. Also I develop
programs (mostly in C) and I'm familiar with networking, security,
firewalls, emulators, kernel programming, dns, I can show you, amongst othe=
r
needs, how to create a server for your own needs or just a workstation.
Please reply with course requests.

- Vaida Bogdan

From linuxchix@e-wire.org  Sun Sep 25 07:49:43 2005
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From: Kaitlyn <linuxchix@e-wire.org>
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Some courses I might be interested in:

As far as security goes a course on IDS systems and setting on up on 
your computer would be helpful for me.  A course in perl would be very 
good also.

--Kaitlyn

Vaida Bogdan wrote:

> Hi, I would be interested to write some courses for this mailling list
>(since some of the courses here really helped me). I work as a network
>administrator and I know BSD/Linux systems pretty well. Also I develop
>programs (mostly in C) and I'm familiar with networking, security,
>firewalls, emulators, kernel programming, dns, I can show you, amongst other
>needs, how to create a server for your own needs or just a workstation.
>Please reply with course requests.
>
>- Vaida Bogdan
>_______________________________________________
>Courses mailing list
>Courses@linuxchix.org
>http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
>  
>


From strangest@comcast.net  Sun Sep 25 07:54:28 2005
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I would love a course on ipchains, or more generally, setting up a linux 
box as a firewall.

Gloria

> Hi, I would be interested to write some courses for this mailling list
>(since some of the courses here really helped me). I work as a network
>administrator and I know BSD/Linux systems pretty well. Also I develop
>programs (mostly in C) and I'm familiar with networking, security,
>firewalls, emulators, kernel programming, dns, I can show you, amongst other
>needs, how to create a server for your own needs or just a workstation.
>Please reply with course requests.
>
>- Vaida Bogdan
>_______________________________________________
>Courses mailing list
>Courses@linuxchix.org
>http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
>
>  
>


From prank_crank@yahoo.com  Sun Sep 25 18:02:00 2005
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From: prank_crank prank <prank_crank@yahoo.com>
To: vaida.bogdan@gmail.com
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Hi Vaida,
=20

My past job profile was of network analyst  ,I have helped various custom=
er to implement network along with firewall /IDS and network management s=
oftware , I have few cisco certification which I had completed to survive=
 in competitive market.

=20

I need your help since I have decided to get into E-security and Penetrat=
ion testing .

=20

I will request you to advise for course which can help me to write exploi=
t and assembly language program to understand well.

=20

I have completed C,C++,Java during my collage days but not in touch for 4=
-5 years.

=20

Many thanks in advance.

=20

Cheers

Prank.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20
http://mail.yahoo.com=20
From anna@cs.wits.ac.za  Mon Sep 26 00:03:29 2005
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To: Kaitlyn <linuxchix@e-wire.org>, N/A@titan.cs.wits.ac.za
Subject: Re: [Courses] please reply with what kind of courses are you
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Thanks for the Gimp and Perl courses. I'm interested in networking and 
security courses, as well as kernel programming.

Anna.

---------- Original Message -----------
From: Kaitlyn <linuxchix@e-wire.org>
To: N/A
Cc: courses@linuxchix.org
Sent: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:49:37 -0700
Subject: Re: [Courses] please reply with what kind of courses are you 
interested in

> Some courses I might be interested in:
> 
> As far as security goes a course on IDS systems and setting on up on 
> your computer would be helpful for me.  A course in perl would be 
> very good also.
> 
> --Kaitlyn
> 
> Vaida Bogdan wrote:
> 
> > Hi, I would be interested to write some courses for this mailling list
> >(since some of the courses here really helped me). I work as a network
> >administrator and I know BSD/Linux systems pretty well. Also I develop
> >programs (mostly in C) and I'm familiar with networking, security,
> >firewalls, emulators, kernel programming, dns, I can show you, amongst 
other
> >needs, how to create a server for your own needs or just a workstation.
> >Please reply with course requests.
> >
> >- Vaida Bogdan
> >_______________________________________________
> >Courses mailing list
> >Courses@linuxchix.org
> >http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
> >  
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
------- End of Original Message -------


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On Sun, Sep 25, 2005 at 03:18:44PM +0200, Anna Badimo wrote:
> Thanks for the Gimp and Perl courses. I'm interested in networking and 
> security courses, as well as kernel programming.

Have you seen these?

http://www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/kernel_hacking/
http://www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/security/
http://www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/networking/
http://www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/firewalling/

        /Lina

From gdziengel@gmail.com  Mon Sep 26 01:10:36 2005
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On 9/24/05, Gloria Willadsen <strangest@comcast.net> wrote:
> I would love a course on ipchains, or more generally, setting up a linux
> box as a firewall.
>
Me too!  Even a hardening your linux workstation course would be great!

From rachel@xtreme.com  Mon Sep 26 04:01:56 2005
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WOW!  What an offer!  Thanks!

The thing I personally would like most is a kind of general Linux server 
troubleshooting course.  I have inherited the management of a couple of 
production servers with Java web applications running on them, and I see 
some kinds of behavior (mostly slowdowns & hangs that fix themselves) 
that I never see on staging or development systems.  I haven't been able 
to find a reason for any of the issues within the applications' 
codebases but I haven't got much of an idea how to start determining 
what kinds of problems the server machines might have apart from the 
webapps on them.

Thanks,
Rachel

Vaida Bogdan wrote:
>  Hi, I would be interested to write some courses for this mailling list
> (since some of the courses here really helped me). I work as a network
> administrator and I know BSD/Linux systems pretty well. Also I develop
> programs (mostly in C) and I'm familiar with networking, security,
> firewalls, emulators, kernel programming, dns, I can show you, amongst other
> needs, how to create a server for your own needs or just a workstation.
> Please reply with course requests.
> 
> - Vaida Bogdan
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses

From mary@home.puzzling.org  Mon Sep 26 11:21:32 2005
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On Sat, Sep 24, 2005, Vaida Bogdan wrote:
>  Hi, I would be interested to write some courses for this mailling list
> (since some of the courses here really helped me).

Yay, we're always looking for new course leaders :)

For people interested in running a course, see
http://www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/running_a_course.html

We've had some non-technical courses, such as "running a small business"
and "computing careers", so if people have non-technical expertise that
they think chix would be interested in learning about, you're welcome to
propose non-technical courses.

As for me, I'd be interested in seeing an editor course on either vi(m)
or emacs, and (this is very specific) graphics programming with Blender.

-Mary

From Tamacun19@netscape.net  Mon Sep 26 23:56:31 2005
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From: Tamacun19@netscape.net
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Sounds great!Would sign up.
Thanks,
E. Duran.

Rachel McConnell <rachel@xtreme.com> wrote:

>WOW!  What an offer!  Thanks!
>
>The thing I personally would like most is a kind of general Linux server=
=20
>troubleshooting course.  I have inherited the management of a couple of=20
>production servers with Java web applications running on them, and I see=
=20
>some kinds of behavior (mostly slowdowns & hangs that fix themselves)=20
>that I never see on staging or development systems.  I haven't been able=
=20
>to find a reason for any of the issues within the applications'=20
>codebases but I haven't got much of an idea how to start determining=20
>what kinds of problems the server machines might have apart from the=20
>webapps on them.
>
>
Thanks,
>Rachel
>
>Vaida Bogdan wrote:
>>  Hi, I would be interested to write some courses for this mailling lis=
t
>> (since some of the courses here really helped me). I work as a network
>> administrator and I know BSD/Linux systems pretty well. Also I develop
>> programs (mostly in C) and I'm familiar with networking, security,
>> firewalls, emulators, kernel programming, dns, I can show you, amongst=
 other
>> needs, how to create a server for your own needs or just a workstation=
.
>> Please reply with course requests.
>>=20
>> - Vaida Bogdan
>> _______________________________________________
>> Courses mailing list
>> Courses@linuxchix.org
>> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
>_______________________________________________
>Courses mailing list
>Courses@linuxchix.org
>http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
>

__________________________________________________________________
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From linda@meridian-ds.com  Tue Sep 27 01:28:34 2005
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Best laugh I've had all weekend.



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Any way to trun off the Netscape promo spam?

----- Original Message ----- 
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To: "Rachel McConnell" <rachel@xtreme.com>; <courses@linuxchix.org>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Courses] please reply with what kind of courses
areyouinterested in


<snip>
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I'd love a best practices system security course. 

-chris



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I wanna too
- Renata
De:courses-bounces@linuxchix.org

Para:"Vaida Bogdan" vaida.bogdan@gmail.com, courses@linuxchix.org

C=F3pia:

Data:Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:11:28 -0700

Assunto:RE: [Courses] please reply with what kind of courses are you inte=
restedin

> I'd love a best practices system security course. 
> 
> -chris
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses

From swalk@ya.com  Wed Sep 28 11:35:34 2005
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I would really like to know about email and running my own mail server. 
There are lot s of articles and howtos dealing with individual programs 
like  Sendmail, Fetchmail, Courier,
SpamAssassin, Procmail etc but very little on how to turn those individual 
links into a chain - if you see what I mean.

Steve



From mary@home.puzzling.org  Wed Sep 28 11:39:14 2005
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On Sun, Sep 25, 2005, Steven Walker wrote:
> I would really like to know about email and running my own mail server. 
> There are lot s of articles and howtos dealing with individual programs 
> like  Sendmail, Fetchmail, Courier,
> SpamAssassin, Procmail etc but very little on how to turn those individual 
> links into a chain - if you see what I mean.

Since there are a lot of choices for making this chain:

 1. Mail Transport Agent: Sendmail, Postfix, Exim or qmail

 2. Mail Delivery Agent: procmail or any of the above

 3. IMAP or POP server (remote access to mailboxes): uw-imap, courier,
    dovecot...

 4. Spam filtering: SpamAssassin or SpamBayes or a number of others

 5. Mail User Agents: mutt, Evolution, KMail, slypheed and millions of
    others

and a lot of the choices are independent, people wanting this might want
to specify their needs a little better... ie, how do you want to use
your mail?

-Mary

From swalk@ya.com  Wed Sep 28 20:34:33 2005
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Thanks for the response. I am not sure that this is now in the right
section - maybe another course has just started :)

>Since there are a lot of choices for making this chain:
>  
>
That is part of the problem, knowing where to start is difficult.

> 1. Mail Transport Agent: Sendmail, Postfix, Exim or qmail
>
> 2. Mail Delivery Agent: procmail or any of the above
>
> 3. IMAP or POP server (remote access to mailboxes): uw-imap, courier,
>    dovecot...
>
> 4. Spam filtering: SpamAssassin or SpamBayes or a number of others
>
> 5. Mail User Agents: mutt, Evolution, KMail, slypheed and millions of
>    others
>
>and a lot of the choices are independent, people wanting this might want
>to specify their needs a little better... ie, how do you want to use
>your mail?
>
It is for home use so simple to use helps . I am fed up with having my
various email accounts on various computers and never knowing exactly
where to search for a particular message or address.  My imaginary setup
would be my server downloading my mail from various pop3 servers,
filtering it for spam and filing it. Then, probably using Imap, I can
access my mail from whichever computer I happen to be using.

Being a wannabe geek I would probably want to do as much for myself as
possible. Can I cut out my ISP's SMTP server and do it all myself? (and
save a lot of anti-relaying problems when I am away from home and using
the laptop). I would also like to try running my own POP3 server but
probably would not trust it for serious use as there is too much that
can go wrong.

But I do not know enough about the subject to really specify my
requirements so I am open to anything.


Steve

From vaida.bogdan@gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 18:42:50 2005
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Thank you for your responses. Here is my conclusion:

iptables - on site
perl - on site
networking - on site
security/hardening - on site
kernel programming - on site

on site =3D http://www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/

troubleshooting/tune up - too specific, I can't create a number of lessons
based on common errors as there already is an article on the topic
ids - there are many articles on snort presentation and deployment (or othe=
r
ids)
vim/emacs - same as above + the command vimtutor teaches you most of the
basics for vim, emacs has tutorials as well

shell programming - same as above, I could try a more specific approach
(filterring processes, changing similar content in multiple files, good log=
s
filtering tricks)
best practices security - interesting, I have some very good ideeas on the
topic
mail setup (mta + mda + imap/pop + anti spam + mua) - interesting but there
is a lot of information on google (try searching "postfix mysql" on google)
or even try "mail toaster"; for more advanced deployment
http://workaround.org/articles/ispmail-sarge/

Any comments on the above?

On 9/28/05, Steven Walker <swalk@ya.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the response. I am not sure that this is now in the right
> section - maybe another course has just started :)
>
> >Since there are a lot of choices for making this chain:
> >
> >
> That is part of the problem, knowing where to start is difficult.
>
> > 1. Mail Transport Agent: Sendmail, Postfix, Exim or qmail
> >
> > 2. Mail Delivery Agent: procmail or any of the above
> >
> > 3. IMAP or POP server (remote access to mailboxes): uw-imap, courier,
> > dovecot...
> >
> > 4. Spam filtering: SpamAssassin or SpamBayes or a number of others
> >
> > 5. Mail User Agents: mutt, Evolution, KMail, slypheed and millions of
> > others
> >
> >and a lot of the choices are independent, people wanting this might want
> >to specify their needs a little better... ie, how do you want to use
> >your mail?
> >
> It is for home use so simple to use helps . I am fed up with having my
> various email accounts on various computers and never knowing exactly
> where to search for a particular message or address. My imaginary setup
> would be my server downloading my mail from various pop3 servers,
> filtering it for spam and filing it. Then, probably using Imap, I can
> access my mail from whichever computer I happen to be using.
>
> Being a wannabe geek I would probably want to do as much for myself as
> possible. Can I cut out my ISP's SMTP server and do it all myself? (and
> save a lot of anti-relaying problems when I am away from home and using
> the laptop). I would also like to try running my own POP3 server but
> probably would not trust it for serious use as there is too much that
> can go wrong.
>
> But I do not know enough about the subject to really specify my
> requirements so I am open to anything.
>
>
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
>

From swalk@ya.com  Fri Oct  7 22:46:15 2005
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>Thank you for your responses. Here is my conclusion:
>
>iptables - on site
>perl - on site
>networking - on site
>security/hardening - on site
>kernel programming - on site
>
>on site = http://www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/
>
>troubleshooting/tune up - too specific, I can't create a number of lessons
>based on common errors as there already is an article on the topic
>ids - there are many articles on snort presentation and deployment (or other
>ids)
>vim/emacs - same as above + the command vimtutor teaches you most of the
>basics for vim, emacs has tutorials as well
>
>shell programming - same as above, I could try a more specific approach
>(filterring processes, changing similar content in multiple files, good logs
>filtering tricks)
>best practices security - interesting, I have some very good ideeas on the
>topic
>mail setup (mta + mda + imap/pop + anti spam + mua) - interesting but there
>is a lot of information on google (try searching "postfix mysql" on google)
>or even try "mail toaster"; for more advanced deployment
>http://workaround.org/articles/ispmail-sarge/
>
>Any comments on the above?
>  
>
Of course what you offer is entirely up to you but I think that you have
overlooked the advantage to the members of a group on a joint endeavor.
An excellent example of this was the Gimp course. It was unfortunate
that there was little response to the Perl course. I have no idea if it
was because there were no students or because they found it so easy
there were no questions to ask. Either way it must have been
disheartening for the tutor and less interesting for the students.

There are any number of tutorials, manuals, howtos etc which are very
useful. They become ten times better with a discussion group led by an
expert. If there is demand I see no reason not to repeat courses if the
course leader is prepared to do so.  Certainly the fact that a topic is
well documented is no reason not to run a course.

Steve

PS Your suggestion on log filtering tricks is one that I really do like.

From mary@home.puzzling.org  Sat Oct  8 07:41:30 2005
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On Fri, Oct 07, 2005, Steven Walker wrote:
> It was unfortunate that there was little response to the Perl course.
> I have no idea if it was because there were no students or because
> they found it so easy there were no questions to ask. Either way it
> must have been disheartening for the tutor and less interesting for
> the students.

As best I can remember, all programming courses have worked out that
way. I can only imagine that it's just worked out that people who are
motivated enough to do a course on programming here have also been
motivated enough to teach themselves.

-Mary

From mary@home.puzzling.org  Sun Oct  9 11:50:49 2005
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For what it's worth, a year or so ago, I was quite keen to laern Perl 
when I had the time. Since then, the seer number of available laguages, 
and the  arguments for and against each by those already using them  
have quite simply put me off the idea - how the heck is a nwbie to know 
whether or not they will be wasting their time learning  any particular 
language?   The fnal straw for me was in trying to find smthing simple 
enough that I could be assured of getting some kind of useful result 
whilst being interesting enough to, well, hold my interest.  When I 
asked quesions in various places regarding what I had in mind (a repeat 
of something I did on an Amiga years ago)  I received such contradictory 
and downright discouraging responses (amazingly, it appears that modern 
technology makes that prticular project harder to implement, rather than 
easier!) that I decided to give up.

The only stuff like programming of any kind I've been doing lately is 
the occasional use of the console for very minor tasks, and learning a 
bit of very basic SQL at work, so I can more quickly find bits of info 
in database tables where visual inspection using the SpeedSQL interface 
is impractical. I've just learnt about joins, and have only just 
finished a wee lesson using some simple ones.   But (a) I can see a 
clear use for it, (b) it's intelligible (well... those joins are more 
difficult in practice than in principle, but YKWIM) and (c) I'm not 
getting a lot of contradictory arguments over whether I should be 
learning that or something else.

For me to go  for any other kind of programming course, it will need to 
meet those same points.  Is there a clear use for it?  Does the language 
seem intelligible to me? And whilst I don;t mind seeing a short list of 
strengths and weaknesses, I really do NOT want arguments over whether I 
should belearning the ruddy thing at all, or to be told that some proble 
I've hit would b best handled by some other flipping language.

I would absolutely LOVE a kind of generalised "programming with Linux" 
course, which, if necessary, selects up to three languages (DEFINITELY 
no more than four)  that are relatively simple to grasp but that in 
conjunction, can get quite a bit of Useful Stuff done, with some 
interesting examples early on (Can I just say I loathe seeing "hello 
world"?!  This seems to be a sure sign that the language being taught is 
too esoteric for beginners and only used by its inventor plus chums or 
the l333t types - or otherwise by advanced programmers)).  Doesn't 
matter whether something else is better for the job, doesn't matter 
whether it's a bit slow or clunky compared to a "best" solution.  So C 
and Java are right out.  Something as readable and comprehensible as 
old-style BASIC - or that can be acually used in a wa that is as clear 
as that, a least.  At work, I sometimes find myself looking at 
ColdFusion code. I can't write the stuff and have no need to - but I CAN 
follow the logic and generally help pinpoint where a problem has arisen 
so the programmers can fix it.  And I'm sure if I had time to take a 
course in it that I could learn ColdFusion.   I want to see stuff like 
that.  Not esoteric strings of characters maipulating even more esoteric 
programming concepts.  Those can come later.  Ater all, I larnt to talk 
early on with phrases like "want biscuit!" and "no!" not "Excuse me, may 
Ihave a biscuit?" or "Thank you, but I do not want that"  "want 
biscuit!" gets the job done - and leads one on the way to the moe 
complex and elgant stuff...

Damn, I've soapboxed. Apologies, but I;ve found it really frustrating, 
having once been fairly good at the programing of the day (twenty years 
ago) to find myself nowadays unable to get wondrous things out of modern 
technology by my own efforts, rathr than using someone else's solution..

Esme

Mary wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 07, 2005, Steven Walker wrote:
>  
>
> >It was unfortunate that there was little response to the Perl course.
> >I have no idea if it was because there were no students or because
> >they found it so easy there were no questions to ask. Either way it
> >must have been disheartening for the tutor and less interesting for
> >the students.
> >    
> >
>
> As best I can remember, all programming courses have worked out that
> way. I can only imagine that it's just worked out that people who are
> motivated enough to do a course on programming here have also been
> motivated enough to teach themselves.
>
> -Mary
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
>
>
>
>
>  
>


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> > It was unfortunate that there was little response to the Perl course.
> > <snip>
> > it must have been disheartening for the tutor 

It wasn't as disheartening as you might think. There was a little
discussion in the beginning, so I knew people were out there.

One other person was leading a course at the same time, and since there
was no discussion she asked if anyone was following it. She got over ten
replies. The people are there even if they're not making any noise.

> > and less interesting for the students.

Yes, I think it is. In particular, nobody asked the list any questions,
but I think everyone would have benefitted from some.

But I know that many people follow courses passively, because that's
what I do! We don't always have a lot of time to invest in learning a
new skill, but we can still glean some knowledge by skimming it. It's
not necessarily a lack of discipline: it may be the best use of our
time.

> people who are
> motivated enough to do a course on programming here have also been
> motivated enough to teach themselves.

I think that's true too.

-- 
 Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately, it kills all its students.
                          - bumper sticker



From lisawe@gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 07:02:33 2005
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From: Lisa Wold Eriksen <lisawe@gmail.com>
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On 10/10/05, Dan <dan@cellectivity.com> wrote:
> > > It was unfortunate that there was little response to the Perl course.
> > > <snip>
> > > it must have been disheartening for the tutor
>
> It wasn't as disheartening as you might think. There was a little
> discussion in the beginning, so I knew people were out there.

I was, although I didn't participate in the discussions...
One of the reasons I like the linuxchix courses is that I get the
lessons sent to me one at a time. I don't have to follow the schedule
if I don't want to or don't have the time. But the arrival of the
e-mail reminds me that when I've got some spare time, learning
"this-and-that" (subject of the course) would be a good way to spend
that time.
That's the main reason why I didn't really make any noise on the
mailing list during the Perl course; I had a lot of other things to
do, so I kind of fell behind. Also, I was displaying what I've come to
think of as "typical girlish behaviour": I didn't want to ask too
stupid questions. I guess this is partly because I know I usually find
the answer to my question a few minutes after I've asked. Or, even
better, having to formulate the problem/question so that others will
understand what I'm saying actually makes me realize what the
solution/answer is.
A third reason for not participating was a lack of insight; it didn't
really occur to me that my silence might affect others (especially the
one leading the course). But now I know better. ;)

> > > and less interesting for the students.
>
> Yes, I think it is. In particular, nobody asked the list any questions,
> but I think everyone would have benefitted from some.
>
> But I know that many people follow courses passively, because that's
> what I do! We don't always have a lot of time to invest in learning a
> new skill, but we can still glean some knowledge by skimming it. It's
> not necessarily a lack of discipline: it may be the best use of our
> time.

As you might have guessed, I completely agree with this. :)

Lisa

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Esme wrote,
"Something as readable and comprehensible as old-style-BASIC"
 Real BASIC Standard Edition free for Linux
  http://www.realsoftware.com/download/linux

From fazia@faziarizvi.net  Wed Oct 12 04:53:49 2005
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On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Dan wrote:

>>> It was unfortunate that there was little response to the Perl course.
>>> <snip>
>>> it must have been disheartening for the tutor
>
> It wasn't as disheartening as you might think. There was a little
> discussion in the beginning, so I knew people were out there.
>
> One other person was leading a course at the same time, and since there
> was no discussion she asked if anyone was following it. She got over ten
> replies. The people are there even if they're not making any noise.
>
>>> and less interesting for the students.
>
> Yes, I think it is. In particular, nobody asked the list any questions,
> but I think everyone would have benefitted from some.
>
> But I know that many people follow courses passively, because that's
> what I do! We don't always have a lot of time to invest in learning a
> new skill, but we can still glean some knowledge by skimming it. It's
> not necessarily a lack of discipline: it may be the best use of our
> time.
>
>> people who are
>> motivated enough to do a course on programming here have also been
>> motivated enough to teach themselves.
>
> I think that's true too.


I thought I'd mention that I was one of the students in Dan's Perl course, 
and I found it very helpful. I bacame "quiet" when life events meant that 
I wasn't able to keep up in real-time. But I still have all the emails and 
lessons from the course at the point at which I had to stop - and I intend 
to resume going through them, even though the course has long since ended.

ad astra,
Faz

   (    Fazia Begum Rizvi
    )   www.faziarizvi.net
  ___
  \_/o

From vaida.bogdan@gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 04:58:56 2005
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I keep the Perl lessons too. I'll use them as a reference when I'll
have to do some perl stuff.

On 10/11/05, Fazia Begum Rizvi <fazia@faziarizvi.net> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Dan wrote:
>
> >>> It was unfortunate that there was little response to the Perl course.
> >>> <snip>
> >>> it must have been disheartening for the tutor
> >
> > It wasn't as disheartening as you might think. There was a little
> > discussion in the beginning, so I knew people were out there.
> >
> > One other person was leading a course at the same time, and since there
> > was no discussion she asked if anyone was following it. She got over te=
n
> > replies. The people are there even if they're not making any noise.
> >
> >>> and less interesting for the students.
> >
> > Yes, I think it is. In particular, nobody asked the list any questions,
> > but I think everyone would have benefitted from some.
> >
> > But I know that many people follow courses passively, because that's
> > what I do! We don't always have a lot of time to invest in learning a
> > new skill, but we can still glean some knowledge by skimming it. It's
> > not necessarily a lack of discipline: it may be the best use of our
> > time.
> >
> >> people who are
> >> motivated enough to do a course on programming here have also been
> >> motivated enough to teach themselves.
> >
> > I think that's true too.
>
>
> I thought I'd mention that I was one of the students in Dan's Perl course=
,
> and I found it very helpful. I bacame "quiet" when life events meant that
> I wasn't able to keep up in real-time. But I still have all the emails an=
d
> lessons from the course at the point at which I had to stop - and I inten=
d
> to resume going through them, even though the course has long since ended=
.
>
> ad astra,
> Faz
>
>    (    Fazia Begum Rizvi
>     )   www.faziarizvi.net
>   ___
>   \_/o
> _______________________________________________
> Courses mailing list
> Courses@linuxchix.org
> http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/listinfo/courses
>

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On Wednesday 12 Oct 2005 12:28 am, Vaida Bogdan wrote:
> I keep the Perl lessons too. I'll use them as a reference when I'll
> have to do some perl stuff.

they are archived on the website - easier to read there
--=20
regards
kg

http://www.livejournal.com/users/lawgon
tally ho! http://avsap.org.in
=E0=B2=87=E0=B2=82=E0=B2=A1=E0=B3=8D=E0=B2=B2=E0=B2=BF=E0=B2=A8=E0=B2=95=E0=
=B3=8D=E0=B2=B8 =E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=BE=E0=AE=B4=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=95!

From alix@trillke.net  Mon Jan  9 05:36:58 2006
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dear carla,

I just found out about your online-courses on the linuxchix-page. I want to start into computer-things.
programming or administrating or whatever; just anything to learn sth about it.

But I have the problem, that I don't even know how to start. the linux-shell I just opened doesn't read
the commands (like locate), the VIM help (just to try any editor) didn't help and I don't even know 
whats the meaning of crontab (but I can imagine).

Can you name me any very basic manuals, so I can get into working with my computer SOMEHOW?
And do you have any courses starting now? The ones on the webpage are dated out, as it seems.

best regards,

alix

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From david@aeolia.co.uk  Tue Jan 10 21:10:32 2006
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alix@trillke.net (Alix Einfeldt) writes:

> I just found out about your online-courses on the linuxchix-page. I want to start into computer-things.
> programming or administrating or whatever; just anything to learn sth about it.
>
> But I have the problem, that I don't even know how to start. the linux-shell I just opened doesn't read
> the commands (like locate), the VIM help (just to try any editor) didn't help and I don't even know 
> whats the meaning of crontab (but I can imagine).
>
> Can you name me any very basic manuals, so I can get into working with my computer SOMEHOW?
> And do you have any courses starting now? The ones on the webpage are dated out, as it seems.

Have a look at RUTE - I found it very useful.

http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz

David

-- 

david@aeolia.co.uk


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From clytie@riverland.net.au  Fri Mar 17 14:30:25 2006
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Hello :)

I must be missing something. I have subscribed to this list, but I =20
can't find where I subscribe to any specific course. :(

Thankyou for any help you can offer with this.

from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh=C3=B3m =
=20
Vi=E1=BB=87t h=C3=B3a ph=E1=BA=A7n m=E1=BB=81m t=E1=BB=B1 do)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN



From clytie@riverland.net.au  Fri Mar 17 14:43:55 2006
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Subject: [Courses] Courses wanted: basic Linux skills
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Some months ago (I'm working my way through the Free Software Tools =20
course in the archive), Vaida posted this request:

>  Hi, I would be interested to write some courses for this mailling =20
> list
> (since some of the courses here really helped me). I work as a network
> administrator and I know BSD/Linux systems pretty well. Also I develop
> programs (mostly in C) and I'm familiar with networking, security,
> firewalls, emulators, kernel programming, dns, I can show you, =20
> amongst other
> needs, how to create a server for your own needs or just a =20
> workstation.
> Please reply with course requests.

I don't know if it's still current.

If the Linux commands course isn't still running, I'd certainly be =20
interested in a course in basic Linux use, how to set up and use your =20=

shell (bash, in my case), system configuration (locales, language, =20
man, common config tasks), using cron to automate common tasks, =20
common Linux commands, that sort of thing.

I'm _using_ these things, I just don't understand them. I want to =20
understand them, to get past the copy and paste stage. I want to be =20
able to do it myself.

For example, I run Mac OSX 10.4.5, which has a BSD base. I use my =20
shell continually, to run gettext commands, for cvs/svn and/or ssh, =20
I'm running a project for translating manpages, so I'm interested in =20
man config., I'd certainly benefit from understanding how to navigate =20=

my system better, how installing programs actually works, options for =20=

different tasks.

Many thanks to anyone willing to run this type of course. :)

from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh=C3=B3m =
=20
Vi=E1=BB=87t h=C3=B3a ph=E1=BA=A7n m=E1=BB=81m t=E1=BB=B1 do)
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From clytie@riverland.net.au  Fri Mar 17 14:44:53 2006
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From: Clytie Siddall <clytie@riverland.net.au>
Subject: Fixed (was: Re: [Courses] How do I subscribe to a specific course?
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On 17/03/2006, at 1:47 PM, Clytie Siddall wrote:

> I must be missing something. I have subscribed to this list, but I =20
> can't find where I subscribe to any specific course. :(
>
> Thankyou for any help you can offer with this.

Got it! Mary explained in the early lessons. Don't know how I missed =20
seeing that putting in my password (after inputting my email address =20
to get to the Options page) would reveal more options. Not my =20
brightest day. Sorry.

from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh=C3=B3m =
=20
Vi=E1=BB=87t h=C3=B3a ph=E1=BA=A7n m=E1=BB=81m t=E1=BB=B1 do)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN



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Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:00:38 +0530
From: "Aneesha Govil" <popcorn09@gmail.com>
To: "Clytie Siddall" <clytie@riverland.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Courses] Courses wanted: basic Linux skills
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From lawgon@thenilgiris.com  Fri Mar 17 16:57:33 2006
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From: Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon@thenilgiris.com>
To: courses@linuxchix.org
Subject: Re: [Courses] Courses wanted: basic Linux skills
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:28:35 +0530
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On Friday 17 Mar 2006 11:00 am, Aneesha Govil wrote:
> >I'm _using_ these things, I just don't understand them. I want
> > to understand them, to get past the copy and paste stage. I
> > want to be able to do it myself.
>
> I agree with that! I am at the same stage and it can be terribly
> frustrating. It would help if there is a course about this.

its all neatly packaged in Carla's linux cookbook - and she is=20
available on linuxchix for any clarifications

--=20
regards
kg

http://www.livejournal.com/users/lawgon
tally ho! http://avsap.org.in
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=B3=8D=E0=B2=B8 =E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=BE=E0=AE=B4=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=95!

From lawgon@thenilgiris.com  Fri Mar 17 17:41:16 2006
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Subject: Re: [Courses] How do I subscribe to a specific course?
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On Friday 17 Mar 2006 8:47 am, Clytie Siddall wrote:
> I must be missing something. I have subscribed to this list, but
> I =C2=A0 can't find where I subscribe to any specific course. :(

i am subscribed to courses only - but i get all the courses mail

--=20
regards
kg

http://www.livejournal.com/users/lawgon
tally ho! http://avsap.org.in
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From clytie@riverland.net.au  Wed Mar 22 13:35:39 2006
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On 21/03/2006, at 9:12 PM, Vaida Bogdan wrote:

> I didn't write the course due to lack of time, it's still on my TODO
> list (but I'll probably write it in summer).

Great. :)

My TODO list is starting to look more like the Dead Sea Scrolls... :D

with less relevance to real life, sometimes. Before I was too ill to =20
work, I had an In basket, and a Still In basket. ;)

Comes from being interested in just about everything, I suppose, but =20
difficult to manage.
>
> Regarding MacOS and general BSD knowledge, try going over the handbook
> www.freebsd.org/handbook and for bash:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bash -> External links

Thanks for the links, good ones. I am trying to acquire this =20
knowledge, and look forward to being taught it, as opposed to trying =20
to teach myself. The latter is a lot better than nothing, and any =20
educated and/or determined person can do it, but it doesn't compare =20
with being taught by someone who understands how things work. :)

from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh=C3=B3m =
=20
Vi=E1=BB=87t h=C3=B3a ph=E1=BA=A7n m=E1=BB=81m t=E1=BB=B1 do)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN